ok lets see someone else beat that off hand group. Even I know I'd get my rear end handed to me.

That's because you're a bench shooter. :p

well it beats being an "Internet shooter" :D :D

With all the pictures you post, I thought that's what you were? :p

That's really not too bad. I've sure seen a lot worse.

Have you zeroed the rifle from a bench prior to this?

You've got a base line to beat for comparison when you practice.

If you've go one of those called a flier for a known reason, flinch ect. Then you know ONE thing in the mix to over come with practice.

May be there is a little room to practice with the hasty and get it pulled in tighter. May be it can help. The other option is to set it up like a true shooting sling with it hooked in front and the loop adjusted around your support arm. Get things locked up before the shot to take as much muscle tension as possible out of the equation.

For one thing moving closer keeps ALL your shots visible on the target area and removes all the guessing of where they went.

Accurate is a relative term, it really doesn't mean any thing unless it's defined and well understood to what the standard of "accurate" is between the participants in the discussion.

Group size, location on the target, and distance shot are more PRECISE than accurate.

For hunting i need a carry strap. Using it as a hasty sling seems to be a better option than a loop sling. It is possible it could be made a tighter hasty sling. The rifle was sighted in from a bench in November. In January the scope was adjusted some, because the point of impact whilst shooting off hand kept being more left, and more high from center. Right now, i see no reason, no reason to move closer.

What seems to be working good right now, is the hasty sling, and the solid cheek weld, this rifle provides. Also, results seem to be better, when the trigger breaks unexpectedly. Another thing that seems to help, is copying the stance i observed, being one that puts more support on skeletal, and less on muscle.

Currently, my shooting requires a massive amount of improvement; hunting season is still a long ways off.









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I believe most of us could use more practice under practical hunting conditions. I know I for one have been a bit lax in my practical shooting. But fortunately it has yet to cost me an animal (knock on wood).
This thread gives me motivation to go and start shooting offhand once I return home to PA

Me too .......................... check this out.

I have several of those slings including a bow sling. They are really good for gripping your shoulder and won't fall off while walking. But by the same token, to slide it off to the ready fire position is also not as easy as with a leather or nylon sling. I prefer the gripping however and I use them exclusively.

I don't see any reason to move closer if they are all on target like that unless you just want to. If anything I might move back ten more to make it an even 100 if I could.

If you put half a twist in the sling it helps with the hasty sling, making it wrap flat around your arm. I can't tell any difference in the way it carrys.

Different bullet
 

This morning a different bullet (pictured) was used in the Dream Season shown in the OP. It was 27 degrees, and zero breeze. Shot in a different spot too. The last time i shot, up where i always have, the truck turned into a toboggan when coming back down the trail; i had little desire to repeat that ride.

screwbolts, sent a bunch of these bullets quite awhile back. He say they are 289 grain water dropped, wheel weight, hard cast. He, and his family use these bullets on deer, and he say they knock the snot out of them critters. They are made to use in sabot, and i used them in the black crush ribs. Regulation require expanding bullets, so i can't hunt with them, but they sure penetrate deep, and sure blow up water jugs. The bullet was tested two summers ago, using 80 grain Blackhorn, and placing the carpet, plywood, water jugs, phone books at 25 yard. The bullet penetrate almost through the whole world, just stopping in the last pages of the last phone book. There appears to be considerable hydraulic shock that somehow happens without the bullet expanding.














Using the hasty sling, and having a good cheek weld, seems to help me shoot off hand. Standing in a way that puts weight on skeletal, instead of muscle, also seems to be good for me.
























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Gettin better!!! I'm still betting the one away from the other 2 is your last shot! Hit the weights Ron! I aint talkin 250 on the bench. Just a couple of 5-10 pounders and do some lat flies, curls, and extensions. Don't push HARD but push yourself a bit. As your strength increases, your groups will shrink.

How many of you "think" you can do better than that (standing free hand) ??

Go a head and post your targets here !!!

I don't think you are going to see many.

I'd say that's some pretty good shooting Ron. Sure it won't win any national matches but for deer and elk it will definitely get the job done.
Just remember: feet position, less muscle tension, relax and squeeze....

You won't see many shooters on here doing much better unless they've are shooting offhand on a regular basis. Heck I know that, not here, but there are guys that couldn't do that well of a bench with their MLs.

Just because you can't. Don't assume others can't. I'm not one to take pictures of range sessions. I don't even remember why I did this one. It's only 75 yds, but 90 yds wouldn't look any different. The first 3 shots were sight adjustments.

That there is something to be proud of son.














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Thanks, Ron, but as I said earlier. Offhand is all i've done all my life. You'll get better the longer you stick with it.

That was with a Wolf, Powerbelts and open sights. I can do better with a sidelock and a PRB. The Wolf barrel is too short to hold steady and the trigger sucks compared to a double set trigger for offhand shooting..

Pete,

That's good shooting; but what makes you so sure you're the only one who can do that at 75 yards ??

And what makes you so sure others can't Sheridan? Judging from your post," How many of you "think" you can do better than that (standing free hand) ??

Go a head and post your targets here !!!", you don't think many, if any, could. I don't think I could do much better anymore. But back 10 or so years ago my off hand groups at 100 matched and sometimes even exceeded Pete's target. And I know a LOT of guys that can do it as well.

Ron is doing quite a bit better than when he started this little journey of his. But there is certainly room for improvement. He is certainly doing well enough for hunting purposes. I'm just happy the man wants to IMPROVE his skills rather than sitting back on his laurels. Just not enough folks out there take the time to measure their skills and willing enough to improve on them.

You're the one who put up the challenge. I never said a thing about what others can do. I'm sure there are those that can shoot much better. Just keep in mind all I was doing was sighting in the gun. I wasn't shooting for score.

Many moons ago when I was much younger and stronger and shot 50-100 rounds a day offhand I could punch out the X ring pretty consistently at 200 yards with my M1 and at 50 ft with my Win 52. Now that I'm older, weaker and lazier my shooting has gone down hill. I know I still shoot plenty well enough to kill everything I shoot at. Besides deer and other big game critters I enjoy taking my rimfire out in the fall and popping squirrels in the noggin when they stick their heads around a tree trunk or over a branch. Its good practice and exercise. I've also been known to dispatch a couple field mice at the cabin with my grandson's Red Ryder...

We all shot better when we were younger. I'm 74 now and was 72 when I shot that target. It's hardly my best effort. It's just the only one I took a picture of. I still can't remember why I took it. I think it was to show Jon in a PM.

That was really good shooting Muley. I don't know what happened to you in 2 years to go from that to not shooting at all.
It must have been something pretty serious. I'll try to keep you in my prayers old boy. Maybe you can post a couple pics of some of your hefty rainbows you catch???

Nothing that drastic. I just can't handle any recoil without getting an injury. Bone disease.

I was going to use a crossbow, but I can't really get into it.

Thanks for the thoughts.

New Old Unfired Omega
 

Never did i like shooting my precious hunting rifles everyday. This led me to purchase a new (old) unfired rifle to use for practice. It came yesterday, and a scope was mounted. Today it was shot supported for several shots at 25 yard, and at 100 yard. The scope dials were turned until it seemed about right. Then five shots were made unsupported. The load was screwbolts 289g hard cast, 105g Blackhorn, black crush rib, W209 primer.




















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Did it shoot center bull supported at that range?

Supported shooting was done further out; around 100 to 105 yard. Two shots were inside the two inch circle.












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So, offhand you're shooting lower than the gun is sighted in for?

Ron, I have a pretty good guess as to why you were shooting low. Your grip angle as well as you rear elbow angle is different with that stock. Has it been a long/longer time since you shot with a thumbhole stock? They do make a difference in your support structure. And with your practice of late being with a non thumbhole stock, you are holding your body differently at the time of the trigger depression, making your shots pull low because your timing is goofed. That rifle may just be a tad slower on firing as well which could make you shoot low. You may not want to shoot your hunting rifles that much, but the fact is, THAT is the tool you will be out there with so it is THAT tool which you should be gaining the deepest relationship with.

Edit to add: Nice looking rifle BTW!!

It might not be a good idea to practice with a gun that's so different from your hunting gun.

correct
















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Super,

If you can, than you can - Right ?! :hail:

Pete,

No challenge, just a question .......................... ? :wave:

I am totally supportive (LOL) of anyone who wants to shoot unsupported !

Did I say something to the CONTRARY ??

*Gives high credits for the pun*!!!

Do unsupported shooters really need more support? It seems to me supported shooters are the ones most often unsupported. As for me, I like to be supported but can handle being unsupported fairly well.

My hernia needs a lot of support.

OK, I'll throw my hat in the ring. It really wasn't as bad as I though it might be.

First I shot a couple from the bench, rested, @ 65 yards to confirm the rifle zero. That's my standard yard stick here in Jackland since it's where my bench is. On the nutz I moved on to the first standing shot I've taken seriously in a while. This is big to reference the target lay out for later. I don't use the fancy paper targets rich folk have got.

First 5 shots standing, using a loop sling, 223 AR, 3x9 scope, 75yds.
No sighter shots after 2 confirming shots from the bench.


Right away I think I've diagnosed low shots from a rifle with a confirmed zero. It's a lack of follow through. Probably most, may be not, but it's my biggest challenge I've identified right away. It's exactly like shooting a bow. Follow through = good shots. Dropping your arm on the shot = a sure low shot.


Don't laugh at my scale lines. I marked those using a tree branch. It's a 12"x12" piece of AR500 steel.