super_hunt54

Just read an article written by a guy that has a stain on his rep (Toby) but I have to say, I agree with his findings on this particular subject. The need for faster twist barrels in the .50 caliber market. I personally believe that longer, more B.C. efficient bullets would seriously increase not only the energy at range, but also the accuracy OVER all ranges. But the accepted 1:28 twist barrels that are currently the norm in the industry just can't cut the mustard with longer more B.C. efficient bullets. Even just a smaller increase to 1:26 would help a LOT. But taking it to 1:24 would give use the twist needed to be able to explore a much larger inventory of rifle bullets. It would also open up the abilities of manufacturers such as Lehigh to develop longer more efficient bullets like the CF line 200gr that we with .50 caliber 1:28 twist rifles just can't quite get stabilized. I believe it was Semi that tried to get them to work and just couldn't quite get them right. Had he had maybe a 1:26 twist they probably would have been absolutely perfect.

What are your thoughts on this subject and do you feel like maybe we should start a push for faster twist barrels?

Grouse45

I think the faster twist in the 45 is more of an issue then the 50. If you look at BC'S, the 215grn .40 Lehigh is I think .330. Sabotloader can confirm that. I think he tried that bullet in his 1/24 but I don't remember his results.

super_hunt54

Not really. Since the .50 is by far the top selling ML caliber, my way of thinking, that is where we need to improve to be able to market better and more efficient bullets. At the current accepted twist rate, companies are "hog tied" to short, inefficient bullets.

Gm54-120

Very very few 45cal bullets will exceed .300 BC. To get there you will need to shoot a VERY heavy bullet or at least a 300gr with a very aggressive ogive profile. These kinds of bullets often don't play very well with sabots.

It much easier to achieve this goal shooting a 45cal sabotless with high BC 45cal bullets. Now if we had a better 45x40 sabot, it would be easier. A 40cal 240-260gr will easily get you shooting long range without the additional recoil of a 300gr+ bullet.

Pretty much every company that makes a 45/70 barrel offers them between 1-18 and 1-22 twist which is just fine for long 40cal projectiles.

super_hunt54

They don't play well with CURRENT sabots because 1) the sabots are too short for the longer bullets and 2) currently you are correct that the .451+ bullets would be to heavy and the needed .400 bullets need such a thick sabot that it doesn't release from the bullet. BUT here's where the fun begins. With the lead free designs now out there, that means you can have more length with less weight! Therefor you can now have 250 to 300gr bullets in .451 with a more efficient BC profile and length
. TADAAAAAA

Gm54-120

Compare the BC of the 458 250gr Monoflex and a 458 325gr FTX. The are nearly identical in size and shape. The MonoFlex is guilding metal. The FTX is your standard cup and core. Both have a polytip.

The Monoflex is FAR less in BC. Roughly .175 vs around .230 for the FTX. Even the Barnes 458 300gr SOCOM boat tail is nothing to write home about in BC. Its pretty poor actually compared to a similar weight Parker BE. Its down right bad compared to a Parker Match Hunter.

super_hunt54

And then look at a 250gr longer, more aerodynamic bullet, and you will get a higher BC. Weight gives that FTX a higher value simple and easy yes. But if you put in a better aerodynamic profile to the calculation for the 250gr you get an equal if not better BC than you will for the heavier FTX.

sabotloader

The 215 did not stabilize totally from the 1/24 but again remember that is a 40 cal bullet.

I certainly concur that a faster twist 50 has its advantageous. As Scott indicated the Knight 52 with the 1/26 twist certainly showed it could shoot the long .458 bullets with great accuracy. And I believe Grouse has shown how well it works with the short stubby .458x220 Bloodline.

I think we are at the max length with several monolythic bullets from the 1/28. The 1/24 was/has been proven a long time ago the better twist for the longer bullets.

Because of State regulations and the way they have to be written the 50 cal. will always be the more desirable caliber for the most. It offers a wide range of flexibilites.

This not to say a fast twist 45 would not be a good thing - it would not be as versitile as a 50 but it certainly would satisfy and meet the needs of a good size group of people.

Gm54-120

You can put lipstick on a pig but....its still a pig. Try as you may, the 45cal monolithic bullet is a very poor choice for a high BC ML bullet. Your ogive will be so long you wont have hardly any bearing surface left on a 250gr bullet.

Your only choice is more weight and length.

I can show you examples such as the Parker 270gr E-max and its lead/copper. Parker will tell you outright (not for sabots) Cutting Edge Bullets made some 240s in 40cal from solid copper. They absolutely wont shoot in a sabot with any twist but they are deadly in a sabotless 40cal SML.

Gm54-120

I never shot those big Knight 375s for the 52cal. Cost and recoil are just too much. The 325gr FTX with 130gr of BH209 was enough of that. A ASG 310gr bullet made by Rocky Mountain for SmokelessMZ (similar to the Parker MH) probably flies just as flat or better than the big Knight .475 375gr.

I would still love to see something around 240gr in a 40cal cup and core for sabots. A 240gr should fit existing sabots. The PR bullets fit them and they make upto a 260gr. A 40cal 230gr or 240gr should also still shoot in a 1-28.

A BC of .275 should be a cake walk considering a 200gr SST is around .250.