I accept the old goat part. :p

Grouse's claim about being able to work accuracy magic on some of the TC barrels is also complete nonsense, in spite of his overly generous opinion of his own talents. I had such a barrel and there is no way on earth he could have developed a load using conicals that would have been satisfactory to anyone. It was as a washboard throughout the rifled section and QLA was badly misaligned. It was too much to ask that it keep groups inside a wash tub opening at 50 yards.

But Grouse states his "facts" as if he is THE ANSWER... even when he is dead wrong. He cites me as being a positive influence in his learning process. He obviously missed some of the more important lessons.

Thanks Ron. ;) Want to see my eye?

Wow! Me, i was just kidding; not realizing you really are an old goat.

Well Underclock, I don't have a reason in the world not to believe you. I also believe any manufacture can make a bad barrel. Ive been pretty fortunate to have accurate barrels with all manufactures including CVA. And even pre Bergara barrels.

I've owned at least 5 Encores, at least 4 Triumphs, and have shot two Omegas that I don't own with bore size bullets. And all shot pretty darn good at 100 yards with bore size bullets. So what you are saying is im just lucky I guess? Haha, I guess that's possible but unlikely.

I take this stuff a little more serious then most. I don't like to joke around or even play games until someone else eggs it on. But its Christmas time and I wanna be nice to someone.

You and Flounder33 are coming after me and making some comments that are really not even necessary at all. So im willing to order a new T/C Triumph and shoot bore size bullets out of it. If the Triumph doesn't shoot bore size bullets well out to 100 yards i'll give the muzzleloader to someone on this forum as a gift. But if it does shoot conicals well, you two pay for the ML and I own it. And then im still gonna give the gun away either way. If the Gun does shoot bore size bullets well, ill send the bullet I use and gun to sabotloader to do a test of his own to confirm what I say. All I need is Underclocks word he will pay and ill order one today.

:party0005:

If a neutral third party is needed in the selection process if it gets that far
I volunteer and am willing to help.
I will step out and not be eligible for anything. On that same token I will not be representing HNI either as I can't nor is it allowed.
It will be just my ethics.

Dave. JW

Ill gladly send it to you to verify. Sabotloaders always doing something for me anyway.:s4: And ill also include shipping money to ship it to a member on this forum when your done to keep. I Love Christmas time!!!

I know quite a few others whose opinions I respect have figured it was the qla that prevented many tcs from shooting conicals accurately. Others I respect like Lee have said they have not encountered that problem.
I never cut the qla off my tc guns to see if that would solve the problem but here is a thread by Ron that convinced me it was the off centered qla that caused the inaccuracy.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...t-casting.html
I know of others on another forum that have cut the end of the barrel off with the same result. From these results, second hand as they may be, I have deduced that an off center qla is what caused the problems. A qla that is not centered on the bore but is machined to be centered on the outside of the barrel.
I know doc white says that sabots will make up for barrels that are not completely up to his standards, making barrels that are not quite perfect still shoot well.
It is entirely possible that a barrel could have a bore that is centered and thus a qla that is centered and then it might shoot conicals with acceptable accuracy. Maybe TC has changed their manufacturing process in their new guns, I have no way of knowing, I only know about the rifles that I and others have owned. It is my opinion that with other barrel manufacturers you would have a sure thing at shooting conicals and with tc it is like playing Russian Roulette, a game I will not play.

I think the only way to solve this is to find a TC with an off center QLA, and see if an accurate load can be worked up.

If I wasn't confident in what im saying, or know any facts I wouldn't make the comments. And if I thought my answers and results could be all over the place like playing Russian Roulette. I would avoid the answer and not supply any information until I new the facts.