Any likely cause for accuracy issue?
10-11-2014, 12:41 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 585
Any likely cause for accuracy issue?
I bought a brand new TC Encore about 7-8 years ago. It's not the pro hunter just the standard model. Stainless steel, laminate wood with thumbhole stock. The last couple years I have noticed it is getting less and less accurate when I sight it in before season. When it was new I could hold a very tight group at 100 yards. I had always shot pellets and this year after reading a lot I decided to try powder. This morning I went out with 777 powder and set up at 100 yards, with a good steady rest. I started out at 110 grains and my first shot was dead center about 3 inches high, about what I wanted. Next shot was 5 inches high and 3 to the left. Next shot 5 hive and 4 inches right.
Just to try I dropped down to 100 grain and first shot was still about 5 inches high and left. After this I adjusted the scope to drop it three inches and my next shot was good, almost X ring. Very next shot was 5 inches high again, so had I not dropped the scope this would have likely been 8 inches high. The scope on the gun is a Traditions brand muzzle loader scope. Are there any go to things I can check on the gun that could cause these issues? Is there a way to see if it is the scope without just going and buying a new one. I hate to spend several hundred dollars for a better scope and still have the same issues. The "hinge pin" (not sure what it is really called) is snug and there is no wobble in the gun and I have to lightly tap it out to remove it. The gun can't have more then a few hundred rounds through it, I shoot it a few times pre season and then shoot a couple deer a year with it. I do swab it with three wet patches and then three dry patches between each shot. I also put a brand new breech plug in this morning.
Any help on where to go next would be great.
Just to try I dropped down to 100 grain and first shot was still about 5 inches high and left. After this I adjusted the scope to drop it three inches and my next shot was good, almost X ring. Very next shot was 5 inches high again, so had I not dropped the scope this would have likely been 8 inches high. The scope on the gun is a Traditions brand muzzle loader scope. Are there any go to things I can check on the gun that could cause these issues? Is there a way to see if it is the scope without just going and buying a new one. I hate to spend several hundred dollars for a better scope and still have the same issues. The "hinge pin" (not sure what it is really called) is snug and there is no wobble in the gun and I have to lightly tap it out to remove it. The gun can't have more then a few hundred rounds through it, I shoot it a few times pre season and then shoot a couple deer a year with it. I do swab it with three wet patches and then three dry patches between each shot. I also put a brand new breech plug in this morning.
Any help on where to go next would be great.
10-11-2014, 01:53 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
Assuming you're using the same bullets as before.. and not powerbelts.....
Have you tried it switching back to pellets? This should be your first test. If it shoots like it did before, then its an adjustment of the loose propellant charge to make it hold groups, then re-zero. If you go back to the pellets you were shooting before and it throws them all over too, then you most likely have a scope problem or mounting problem. Scopes can and do go bad, rather it be a $59 scope or a $500 scope.
Check the scope mounts and rings. Were the mounts mounted with blue loc-tite and torqued properly? Are the rings tight? If you have open sights, remove the scope and shoot the irons and compare. If it shoots well without the scope, then its a dead ringer what the problem is...... the scope.
I've sent many thousands of rounds through Encores and Pro Hunters using the same charges and bullet/sabot combinations, with the ONLY problem being, replacing the breech plug. This you've already completed.
Have you tried it switching back to pellets? This should be your first test. If it shoots like it did before, then its an adjustment of the loose propellant charge to make it hold groups, then re-zero. If you go back to the pellets you were shooting before and it throws them all over too, then you most likely have a scope problem or mounting problem. Scopes can and do go bad, rather it be a $59 scope or a $500 scope.
Check the scope mounts and rings. Were the mounts mounted with blue loc-tite and torqued properly? Are the rings tight? If you have open sights, remove the scope and shoot the irons and compare. If it shoots well without the scope, then its a dead ringer what the problem is...... the scope.
I've sent many thousands of rounds through Encores and Pro Hunters using the same charges and bullet/sabot combinations, with the ONLY problem being, replacing the breech plug. This you've already completed.
10-11-2014, 01:58 PM
#3
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 585
Shooting Barnes bullets. It is shooting about the same as it was with the pellets, that's why I switched this year. I noticed last year with the pellets I was having similar issues. I might take the scope off and try the sites just to see if it groups any better or not.
10-11-2014, 02:17 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
Shooting Barnes bullets. It is shooting about the same as it was with the pellets, that's why I switched this year. I noticed last year with the pellets I was having similar issues. I might take the scope off and try the sites just to see if it groups any better or not.
I would suggest that you shoot it at maybe 75yds as it is and with the scope, keep the target. Then shoot a different target WITHOUT the scope and compare the two targets. Shoot at least 5 rounds of each, which may take any shooter error out. This "should" give you an idea rather its the scope or not.
Muzzleloaders can test scopes. Some $60 scopes may last for years, others may last 10 rounds. Higher quality (more expensive) scopes can go bad too, however quality scopes "in general" hold up and last longer, a higher percentage of them. I had a guy shooting a new rifle here and put a NEW Nikon Prostaff scope on it. We zeroed the scope and it shot excellent but, after 15 rounds it started throwing bullets all over. Nikon repaired it and sent it back, however he mounted a Leupold.
10-11-2014, 05:38 PM
#5
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 83
110 T7?f Not Close to Equivalent to 2 Pellets
There may be another reason for this accuracy difference: You are shooting a substantially different velocity load with 110 gr T7 loose than 2x50 pellet.
Hogdon data shows 1763 fps for 2-50 pellets. For the same velocity, their data produces 88.0 gr with T72f and 81.4 with T73f. 110 gr. T73f is 214 fps higher, at 1977.
In my shooting, I've found that accuracy sweet spots are about the same with different powders when I use an amount of powder that produces about the same velocity.
Depending on whether you are using 2f or 3f, I suggest you try a load of either about 81 or 88.
See the attached graph, that shows all of this.
Bill
Hogdon data shows 1763 fps for 2-50 pellets. For the same velocity, their data produces 88.0 gr with T72f and 81.4 with T73f. 110 gr. T73f is 214 fps higher, at 1977.
In my shooting, I've found that accuracy sweet spots are about the same with different powders when I use an amount of powder that produces about the same velocity.
Depending on whether you are using 2f or 3f, I suggest you try a load of either about 81 or 88.
See the attached graph, that shows all of this.
Bill
10-11-2014, 07:11 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 585
In the past I had shot 100 grains (2 50 grain pellets). Last year I went to the magnum load, 3 50 grain pellets. The accuracy was about the same, it was jumping around but the pattern was about as tight once I made a minor scope adjustment.
As for the breech plug, it is brand new.
If I end up determining it is a scope issue what is a decent made scope that won't break the bank. Probably a $200.00 or less budget since I just bought a new crossbow. I would like to stay closer to $150.00.
As for the breech plug, it is brand new.
If I end up determining it is a scope issue what is a decent made scope that won't break the bank. Probably a $200.00 or less budget since I just bought a new crossbow. I would like to stay closer to $150.00.
Last edited by flyinlowe; 10-11-2014 at 07:13 PM.
10-11-2014, 07:37 PM
#8
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 83
Since it is accurate with 2-50's, I suggest trying 88 (or 81) to check accuracy. If that is accurate, you'll confirm it's not scope, mounts, or other.
If you then want a higher velocity load, you just need to try other powder levels. If this is about powder level, you'll be experimenting with powder, even after you get a new scope.
If you then want a higher velocity load, you just need to try other powder levels. If this is about powder level, you'll be experimenting with powder, even after you get a new scope.
10-11-2014, 08:25 PM
#9
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 585
I had a thread last year, while the groups were a little tighter it was still not what I would call accurate. It used to hold two inch groups, then it gradually got worse the last couple seasons. Last year I was able to keep a 5-6 inch group at 100 yards. I was not happy with that but I hunted and killed the three does I shot. This year it was a little worse then 6 inches at 100 yards. It was shooting bad with the pellets that's why I tried the powder, hoping that was the problem.
10-12-2014, 04:25 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
In the past I had shot 100 grains (2 50 grain pellets). Last year I went to the magnum load, 3 50 grain pellets. The accuracy was about the same, it was jumping around but the pattern was about as tight once I made a minor scope adjustment.
As for the breech plug, it is brand new.
If I end up determining it is a scope issue what is a decent made scope that won't break the bank. Probably a $200.00 or less budget since I just bought a new crossbow. I would like to stay closer to $150.00.
As for the breech plug, it is brand new.
If I end up determining it is a scope issue what is a decent made scope that won't break the bank. Probably a $200.00 or less budget since I just bought a new crossbow. I would like to stay closer to $150.00.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/132..._vc=657TopProd
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/163...ProductFinding
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/592...ProductFinding
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/817...ProductFinding