As I know you know.. some days shooting are better than others.. and for me this day was very favorable.

That bullet at that velocity does generate some serious energy!

These bullets are not Bloodlines - they are Lehigh and they are the bullet you have selected.

The nose on this bullet and the .458-305 is heavier and does require more energy to open than do the bullets built by Lehigh for Knight and sold as Bloodlines. The Bloodline bullets are built directly for a wide range of muzzleloaders and ML shooters...

Not all ML shooters are willing to shot these 100+ grain loads to get the need velocity for these heavy nose bullets.

Then minimum velocity for the operation of the nose is somewhere around 1200 fps. That is the mathematical calculated number. Grouse has shot them in the testing mode in the 900-1000 fps and the nose has opened as planned.

On the opposite end... I shot a 5x4 Whitetail this year at about 50 yards with a .458x305 with the heavy nose... all the time thinking I am shooting an elk bullet @ elk velocities at a small thin skinned Whitetail - I was worried the bullet would run right through and never get time to expand. No worries it worked just fine.

Another great report SL. :D I also find it interesting how little deviation there is in your speeds. Sounds like that sub base is the ticket.

I wonder if the sub base would be better or worse than an over powder wad on other conicals?

Based on what you have here...I wouldn't hesitate to use that load on elk. Probably be pretty awesome out to 200 anyhow.

I have cut off the petals of the plastic part of sabots to use as a sub base for the same purpose. Seems like I would have to stick to those if I were using flat based lead conicals? Does anyone make sub bases for flat based bullets? Would save a lot of work! Also I am trying to stay with the lowest powder charges that will bet the job done, for a couple of reasons: price of powder, recoil shy, and my neck doesn't like the bigger charges.

I like the idea of the sub base with the nose cone for bullets with a rear bell. Bet they would work with bullets like FPBs, thors, and great plains as well? Might even make T/C guns with a QLA to work better with conicals?

Do you know the outside diameter of the 52 and 54 cal bloodline bullets? However, sounds like the heavier ones will open up if you push them fast enough

No I do not think so... the dome on the sub-base flattens to the base when shot. In fact I think it helps hold gas behind the sub-base. But more importantly when the sub-base and projectile leave the crown the sub base has very little influence on the flight if the bullet.

No I do not think so... you would have to go to a shot card or wad.

For those reasons a real sub-base might be exactly what you need... Plus it would/could allow you to shoot a wider variety of bullets - even lighter ones...

TC guns with a QLA - you know you may have a very important point there... Power Belts shoot fine from a QLA basically because of the plastic skirt...

All of the bullets I am using are flat based, both the Lehigh's and the Barnes bullets.

I may just have to order some .500x325's from Knight. I am sure that they are slightly larger in diameter than the .500x350's that I am currently using. If so knurling might not even be needed OR they might be to big to load effectively... I will check with Dave and see if he can quote me the sizes...


The .500x350's I am shooting do have what I call a 'heavier nose' than the regular ML bullets and do require the velocity to make them work as designed...

Just my own personal thoughts and observations... but I have a full bag of shot cards and several packages of wads I would sell you very cheaply. I will not be using them any longer - even with lead conicals...

DUh, I didn't look close enough to see that these were flat based. I thought they had a rear cup, but of course they don't. I am going to order some sub bases and try them on some bullshops!

Well I guess that answers it doesn't it :biggrin:

Do you know if they make the sub-base for .54 cal?

No just for the 50... I wish he would make a 45 also but there are so few 45s on the market... It costs him an arm and a leg to make something new. Buying the molds an the equipment is really pricey...

I followed the link to the bullet you were shooting. How many do you get for 70 bucks as I did'nt see qty mentioned. How do you think these would shoot out of an mk85 if prepared exactly as you did?