I have been spending more time hunting than continuing my sabotless experiment... But, I am ready to post about the latest experiment.

As some already know, I have done basically the same experiment using Barnes XPB 50 cal. bullets, both the 275 grain and the 325 grain. Somewhere near the first of the month I contacted Lehigh Dave about trying the same thing with some of his brass 50 cal bullets. This is the description of the bullet he has available:

The 500-200 was designed to provide advanced terminal performance for the new .500 cartridges including the .500 Cyrus, .500 S&W(Encore rifle), and .50 Beowulf. The strong nose design and DOA technology provides incredible stopping power and exceptional penetration. Please note the ATF regulations specify this bullet can only be used in a rifle. Weight - 350 grains BC (calculated) - 0.136 Length - 0.950 Design velocity - 1,200-2,600 Material - UNSC36000 brass Sold in a packages of 50 at $70.00/box.

I asked Dave about the bullet and the velocities it would work at. I was somewhat concerned about the calculated BC of the bullet but then again for me this bullet is for open sights and the max range for me will be 150-175 yards and 200 yards with a scope.

When I received the bullets the first thing I did was to try the stock bullet in all of my 50 cal. Knight bores. I was somewhat disappointed because the bullet would drop right to the face of the breech plug when set in any of the muzzles. Since they are solid brass I was not sure that I could knurl them and create enough lift to contact in the bore. Today with a little more thought I set aside my mil files and decided to use a set of 'wood rasps' that I had in the shop. The wood rasp did an excellent job creating the knurling lift of the brass I needed.

I completed knurling three of the factory bullets and installed them in the muzzle of a Knight Mountaineer, the knurling was near perfect. So I got greedy and tried the rest of the Knight 50's I had. One rifle, an old MK-85 with a Wiseman Barrel, the knurled bullet was very tight but loadable. In the others they were all tight enough to catch the lands of the bore. Lehigh Dave told me about a German bullet builder, Lutz Moeller, who has suggested and built bullets that do not totally fill the lands and grooves, and is have great success with them. I believe with the addition of the MMP Sub-Base under the bullet to trap the gas the bullet will contact the lands sufficiently to create the rotation for stabilization. This is important for me because of the makeup of the Brass Bullet, I can not count on any 'obturation'. Of course all of this remains to be seen... until I can find the time to go shoot them.

One other bullet that I want to try is the Lehigh/Bloodline .500x325 ML bullet. I would almost bet the ML bullet with it's factory knurling might fit the Knight bores or tight bores of the TC and possibly the CVA's very well. The MMP sub-base or a wad, shot card of some sort will still be needed to seal the gas in the bore.

Here is a set of pictures of what I did do today... - Just can not figure out when I might get time to go to the farm and get some shooting in...

This is going to be interesting. Have you ever tried the Speer 350 grain/.50 caliber "500 S&W Deep Curl Soft Points" or 300 grain "50 Action Express DCHP"?

I have tried the Speer Gold Dot 50x300 and they do work, but they are so short the 'land riding theory' does not always have enough bearing surface, so I sometimes I think they slip up the bore. I also have to say those were knurled with a mil file, the rasp would have created possibly a better grip.

What is this MMP sub base you speak of? I'm guessing a sabot without petals?

Do they make them for a 45? I may try sabotless over the winter for a project.

It is basically is a sabot without petals... No MMP does not make a 45 sub base I wish they did. Sales of 45 sabots is so far down it would take a huge investment for them to build them. Del indicated the other day that 45 sabots represent 1% of the sabots sold by MMP.

You probably already have imagined this but I am thinking about cutting the petals off some 45 sabots and giving them a try, when I get back to the 45 tests later. In my 45's the .452x250 Bloodline with its factory knurling is a near perfect fit....