The Scoop
05-02-2013, 05:38 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 187
The Scoop
On the traditional muzzleloader forums I hear that anything other than a PRB is folly, and the mere mention of a sabot is forbidden. When it has been mentioned in a roundabout way one thing that is often sighted is how nasty the plastic is from the sabots.
So what is the scoop on plastic sabots and what's left behind? Is it such that it requires cleaning between each shot?
I intend on either purchasing a drop in .50 cal barrel for my Lyman's Deerstalker (percussion) or having one made as it would certainly be better to have a faster twist for a conical/saboted bullet barrel. My intentions is to attach a Malcolm style scope for hunting to 150-200 yds.
I like the BC's of Hornady's .430" 265 FTX and .451" 250 and 300 SST's. Pushed by 3F Triple 7 or Olde Eynsford seems like a good combination.
But I've also contemplated using .458" sabots for my Ruger Old Army bullets (.454-460"). I like simple and minimal. I'm not sure how well they'd work though, and I don't care much for an unknown BC value.
So what is the scoop on plastic sabots and what's left behind? Is it such that it requires cleaning between each shot?
I intend on either purchasing a drop in .50 cal barrel for my Lyman's Deerstalker (percussion) or having one made as it would certainly be better to have a faster twist for a conical/saboted bullet barrel. My intentions is to attach a Malcolm style scope for hunting to 150-200 yds.
I like the BC's of Hornady's .430" 265 FTX and .451" 250 and 300 SST's. Pushed by 3F Triple 7 or Olde Eynsford seems like a good combination.
But I've also contemplated using .458" sabots for my Ruger Old Army bullets (.454-460"). I like simple and minimal. I'm not sure how well they'd work though, and I don't care much for an unknown BC value.
05-02-2013, 06:16 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Ive shot sabots over 2700fps in my custom Savage 45. Modern sabot fouling is minimal even with the higher velocity and the higher ignition temps of smokeless powder. I can shoot hundreds of shots before any fouling is noticeable.
05-02-2013, 06:59 AM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
The polymers used in modern sabots has and probably still is an ever growing process of change. The new sabots we use are not the sabots of old. The polymers used in their production have undergone an upgrading if you will, to make them even more rifle friendly. I have shot thousands of sabots through modern muzzleloaders. No harm to the rifle has been done. That's not to detract from the importance of a good solvent and brushing from time to time, just to make sure that no build up of anything is happening. But this solvent and brush cleaning is also aimed at copper, lead, and other impurities building in the barrel. As well as sabot residue, should it ever occur.
There is no cleaning between shots needed reference the sabot itself. When shooters clean between shots it is normally more aimed at powder fouling. As we know, when fired, a muzzleloader burn creates in many cases a fouling that can lead to further loading problems, or decrease in the accuracy of follow up shots, if this fouling is not at least minimized. The cleaning between shots insure that the degree of powder fouling remains somewhat constant. But it is not to remove any plastic that might have been left behind from the sabot.
There is no cleaning between shots needed reference the sabot itself. When shooters clean between shots it is normally more aimed at powder fouling. As we know, when fired, a muzzleloader burn creates in many cases a fouling that can lead to further loading problems, or decrease in the accuracy of follow up shots, if this fouling is not at least minimized. The cleaning between shots insure that the degree of powder fouling remains somewhat constant. But it is not to remove any plastic that might have been left behind from the sabot.
05-02-2013, 07:25 AM
#6
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 187
True Muley, but they state that there is no reason for them. Some have even stated that it is unsportsmen like to use anything but a PRB, that even traditional conicals are terrible. You either need to learn the trajectory and windage or get closer.
I think it's a little closed minded.
But they've also opened the door to the usage of PRB. It's what I intend on using in my Deerstalker as I chose it as my first rifle since most hunting is done within 100 yds (I've shot no further than 80 yds so far), and I wanted a rifle i could walk around all weekend with. I saw a RB as worthless and didn't understand how it could work. It has no real sectional density and such poor BC. From my modern understandings it was as worthless as these guys see other projectiles.
I think it's a little closed minded.
But they've also opened the door to the usage of PRB. It's what I intend on using in my Deerstalker as I chose it as my first rifle since most hunting is done within 100 yds (I've shot no further than 80 yds so far), and I wanted a rifle i could walk around all weekend with. I saw a RB as worthless and didn't understand how it could work. It has no real sectional density and such poor BC. From my modern understandings it was as worthless as these guys see other projectiles.
05-02-2013, 07:29 AM
#7
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 187
I received some boolits for my Old Army that weren't resized. They are .459" and I'm unsure what to do with them. I could turn them backwards and try them as wadcutters as I've heard of some people doing with success. I could buy .458" sabots and try them in my rifle. Or I could hang on to them assuming I'll eventually get into casting.
Hearing so many others claim that the plastic sabots are bad about leaving residue in the rifling I wasn't sure, and I doubted so many would use them if they were so terrible, and so I figured I'd come to a modern muzzleloading forum for a clearer perception on their use.
Hearing so many others claim that the plastic sabots are bad about leaving residue in the rifling I wasn't sure, and I doubted so many would use them if they were so terrible, and so I figured I'd come to a modern muzzleloading forum for a clearer perception on their use.
05-02-2013, 08:00 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
True Muley, but they state that there is no reason for them. Some have even stated that it is unsportsmen like to use anything but a PRB, that even traditional conicals are terrible. You either need to learn the trajectory and windage or get closer.
I think it's a little closed minded.
But they've also opened the door to the usage of PRB. It's what I intend on using in my Deerstalker as I chose it as my first rifle since most hunting is done within 100 yds (I've shot no further than 80 yds so far), and I wanted a rifle i could walk around all weekend with. I saw a RB as worthless and didn't understand how it could work. It has no real sectional density and such poor BC. From my modern understandings it was as worthless as these guys see other projectiles.
I think it's a little closed minded.
But they've also opened the door to the usage of PRB. It's what I intend on using in my Deerstalker as I chose it as my first rifle since most hunting is done within 100 yds (I've shot no further than 80 yds so far), and I wanted a rifle i could walk around all weekend with. I saw a RB as worthless and didn't understand how it could work. It has no real sectional density and such poor BC. From my modern understandings it was as worthless as these guys see other projectiles.
Primitive hunting, or modern ML hunting. Make your choice, but be faithful to your choice.
05-02-2013, 08:50 AM
#9
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 187
I'm willing to try a PRB in my Deerstalker as that many accounts of a silly RB killing so efficiently and often achieving complete passthroughs on medium and even large game animals cannot be dismissed.
Within 100 yds I feel I could do fine with a RB, but it's beyond 100 yds that I would lose confidence. Not that I'm necessarily doubting the effectiveness of a RB with little energy, but the fact that that much windage with a minor 10 mph breeze is quite a bit, and I'm much better at judging within a margin of error for elevation than windage. And this is why I'd want a conical or saboted bullet for hunting beyond such.
I find all kinds of areas around me where I could hunt and not see beyond 75 yds through little clearings, or hunt across open areas or fields.
I haven't yet figured on what I'd want to use for hunting long range. I'd actually prefer a bore sized projectile, and the more aerodynamic profile of the REAL seems more to my liking. But I must admit that I like the modern aerodynamic designs offered nowadays.
I mostly asked about the plastic sabots as those on the traditional forums stated it left a horrible residue, and with these large boolits just sitting here I wondered. It seems silly to load them backwards in my revolver, and I don't know if I'll ever get around to casting.
Within 100 yds I feel I could do fine with a RB, but it's beyond 100 yds that I would lose confidence. Not that I'm necessarily doubting the effectiveness of a RB with little energy, but the fact that that much windage with a minor 10 mph breeze is quite a bit, and I'm much better at judging within a margin of error for elevation than windage. And this is why I'd want a conical or saboted bullet for hunting beyond such.
I find all kinds of areas around me where I could hunt and not see beyond 75 yds through little clearings, or hunt across open areas or fields.
I haven't yet figured on what I'd want to use for hunting long range. I'd actually prefer a bore sized projectile, and the more aerodynamic profile of the REAL seems more to my liking. But I must admit that I like the modern aerodynamic designs offered nowadays.
I mostly asked about the plastic sabots as those on the traditional forums stated it left a horrible residue, and with these large boolits just sitting here I wondered. It seems silly to load them backwards in my revolver, and I don't know if I'll ever get around to casting.
05-02-2013, 08:57 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
Yes, I know. I can't fault them, because I feel the same way, and i'm sure I have many posts on the forum you're talking about. It's a different way of hunting, and you need to accept the limitations of hunting like they did in that era. The minute you try to improve it. You've lost sight of the goal.
Primitive hunting, or modern ML hunting. Make your choice, but be faithful to your choice.
Primitive hunting, or modern ML hunting. Make your choice, but be faithful to your choice.
LOL, I guess I'm a full fledged tramp cause I like em all.
I shoot RB a lot. I shoot full size conicals and I'm not adverse to shooting to shooting saboted bullets, centrefires and rimfires to boot.
Their site is for "Traditional" shooters so it isn't that they're close minded, just not open to the modern versions.
HA