I want a BP rifle kit for xmas! I'm not sure about brands, caliber, twist rate, which style rifle?
I want accuracy for hunting. I might want to do some long range shooting. I'm prepared to pay for quality, not novelty.

I should have mentioned that I am only interested in traditional smoke poles, not modern scoped rifles. Like the Great Plains, or Hawkin kind of thing.
Yes I hunt elk, deer, bear, antelope (need good distance).

How do these guns handle sabots? vs. ball ammo?

Well your statement of wanting to shoot long distance... I would look at the Knight Mountaineer, T/C Triumph, or CVA Accura. Depending on what you hunt, if you hunt elk then go 50 caliber. If its only deer and say hog.. then a .45 caliber would be fine.

I would avoid the kits. Instead get a good rifle, a quality scope, and then the accessories on the side as you find you need them.

Welcome to muzzleloading! There are a lot of good rifles out there so that is a tough question. If you are looking at long range shooting, I would suggest a modern, scoped muzzy in .50 caliber with a 1 in 28" or 1 in 30" twist. Good news is, many modern muzzys fit this description.

In terms of accuracy, most modern muzzys will shoot very accurately once you find the right load for them.

I believe that it is very important to go and handle the rifles you might buy, and choose one that "fits" you the best. For example, I have handled and shot some muzzys that are high quality rifles, but I just didn't like how they shouldered and felt.

As for brands, I would suggest T/C, Knight or CVA. Most people would consider T/C and Knight to be of higher quality than CVA, but in my opinion some of the new CVA's are very close in quality to TC and Knight. I would go to some stores and handle the following rifles to see which ones you prefer. Listed in random order:

T/C Triumph, Pro Hunter and Omega
Knight Disc and Mountaineer
CVA Accura and Apex

All of these are good quality rifles that have proven to be accurate.

Thanks . . . but I have good rifles . . . I want a traditional percussion cap smoke pole.

take a look at http://www.longrifles-pr.com/

http://www.possibleshop.com/rifle-kit.html

http://www.jedediah-starr.com/thumbn...&deep=2&cid=19

I'm sure others can suggest more places or recommend certain locks/barrels etc.

I'd need to hear more about you really want. What do you mean by kit? Does that mean you want a production gun with accessories or a production gun in parts that you assemble and finish the stock? Or a bunch of parts from which you would build a gun?

Since you mentioned shooting sabots but want something traditional looking, I would suggest a Lyman Great Plains Hunter. This is available in .50 caliber with a fast twist barrel. It should be available in left or right hand and percussion or flintlock.

Another site you might want to look at is Dixie Gun Works. They have a number of reproduction guns to choose from. If you want something more custom, look at Track of the Wolf's website.

Well let's see Dig4gold; traditional - unscoped - deer, elk & bear - long range (but how long?). Here are my rambling thoughts.

First off, long range means a good quality peep sight like the Lyman 57 or a one of the Vernier style tang mounted ladder sights.

I would think long range + elk = at least 50 caliber. It would also exclude balls unless your "long range" thoughts are something in the 150 yard range (in which case a .54 or .58 ball may do the job).

Now, you included sabots in the equation. Sabots give you a wider range of options. I would think a quality .452 diameter 300 grain bullet in a sabot will reach out to 300 yards with the accuracy and power needed for your game.

But a barrel with a rate of twist suitable for large powder charges under a round ball won't be worth a hoot with long bullets in a sabot. So you'll need to decide which way you're going to go with the bullet.

OK, let's say you want a ball shooter good for game out to around 150 yards, and target shooting well beyond that. I would be looking for a Thompson Center Renegade or Hawken and a Green Mountain "replacement barrel" in .54 or .58 caliber barrel with a 1:70 twist. Other options might be the .54 Lyman Great plains or the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken.

Now if you decide a sabot shooter is the thing, you should be looking for a .50 caliber sidelock with a 1:28 rate of twist. Once again you will be likely be seeking something with a Green Mountain replacement barrel in that twist.

Other more exotic options might be paper patched bullets in a .50 caliber, if you willing to spend a lot of range time finding the right load combination, or even a .58 Minnie ball shooter which again would take a lot of tuning to get an accurate long range load.

And I've only scratched the surface of possibilities. Ain't muzzleloading fun??

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sche...-standard.html

but not available in kit form

Your best bet might be to contact Pecatonica at the first link I posted previously and discuss your requirements with them. I'm sure they can come up with a combination of components (kit form of sorts) that could come very close to your criteria.

The Lyman Great Plains Hunter in kit form is actually made by Investarms and might also be a decent choice.

http://store.thirdgenerationshooting...m/4,11455.html great price but not a kit

Semi, make him up a kit Swamp Dragon.

KIT: Parts I would assemble.
Example: I'm looking at the Lyman Great Plains rifle in either .54 or .50, but both have a 1:60 twist.
And I am preparred to spend bench time working up a load. "Shoot more . . . shoot more often"!
I know 300 yards is way out there with iron sights . . . just not sure what these types of rifles are capable of and would want to spend the money on one that can deliver ethical knockdown at distance.
I took my Antelope at 550 yards this year. I load my own and practice these shots though and am very confident in taking them.