hubby11

Maybe buy him a pack of green .44 cal sabots just so he could try them and see if his accuracy improves. Heck, they don't cost any more than the blacks.

If you want, PM me with your address and I'll mail you some green CR sabots for him to try.

Breechplug

I really appreciate your offer, Thank You. But you have to know my Buddy to know where he's comming from. I got him started in MLing about 10 years ago or so, he loves deer hunting like me and I finally got him to buy a MLer and got him to hunt our Late Season for Muzzleloading, he was thrilled to get to hunt another 10 days after our Gun Season closed and it cured his End of Hunting Season Blues. He got a MLer Buck and has been hooked ever since. Now he's not into MLing like me, he still uses his Rifle for our Gun Seasn and only uses his Mler for the 10 day late MLer Season. He's used what he uses and that's what e uses, Period. But when he fiirst started I had him load with the 240gr .452 XTP MAG's, not the .430 XTP's that he uses now. I did'nt know he did'nt know the difference but that's what he's been using and there no changing him now. As I said he thinks there the same thing. I'll try my best to get him to use the green sabots for the .44cal XTP's but it's gonna be a tough road for me to get through to him.
(BP)

oldsmellhound

My hunting buddy and his son have used the .452 240 grainer and the .429 240 grainer both for many years. I have been hunting with them for 10 years, and as far as terminal performance goes, I can't say that I've seen a huge difference in the deer they've taken. Shot placement reigns supreme - if the bullet was placed properly, the deer went down fast. The trajectories are probably a bit different at longer ranges, but they rarely shoot past 100 yards...

chaded

If you have tried to help him and he wants no help and you think that this will cause some sort of turmoil in your friendship then just let him shoot whatever he wants and don't worry about it.

.454

I am really sorry about your situation w/ your friend and my last thought was to tell him you were concerned enough for his safety that you called or have him call MMP, the place that specilizes in this very thing. All he would have to do is call and say, " I am shooting this and what is the sabot for this cal. bullet". Hopefully then he would call and find out from the source and possibly find out a few other questions while talking to them. Thats what I may say to my friend.

falcon

Some folks can't be helped because they don't want to be helped.

My shooting can has compartments for various sabots and bullets. A few times i've loaded .430 bullets in .452 sabots. It becomes evident that something is wrong when its loaded. Its a very loose fit in the bore. It could come off the powder and cause a kaboom.

Got back into muzzleloader hunting in 1999. Started with the 240 grain .430 XTP bullet because thats what my friends and neighbors use. That couple has killed numerous trophy buck deer using the bullet.

i've killed about 20 deer and too many hogs to count with the 240 grain .430 XTP bullet . Most have been bang flops. My CVA Stag Horn and TC Black Diamond are sighted in for it.

My Encore is sighted in for the 250 grain SST/Shockwave bullet. I see no difference in the effectiveness of the two bullets: The XTP costs much less.

t.shaffer

there is a big difference in both the 44 cal & the 45 cal first the diameter is .022 difference & second is the 44 -240 cal has a bc of .205 & the 45 cal xtp mag has a .180 bc . the 44 cal flies flatter. i"m not sure who it was on this site really recommends the 44 xtp over the 45 xtp mag they claim it has more knock down power. i myself use the hornady 45 cal 300 regular xtp & it has the bc of .180 . used to use the 45 cal 300 xtp mag & a mmp sabot that was getting a .210 bc . the the xtp mags were getting hard to find due to a lot of handgun reloaders are using them with a hot load. i"ve read alot of stories were the hunter a killed a boat load of deer/ hogs & etc with the .44- 240 xtp"s. i myself have switched over to the hornady 350 grain fpb bullets just due to the blood trail it leaves ( one that stevie wonder could follow ) but mainly because of most deer drt. also to save your friendship have him call hornady personally to have them set him straight & maybe save him from a accident waiting to happen

rodwha

"...with the regular XTPs probably mushrooming better..."
They may mushroom too much. The 45 cal magnum bullets are designed for the higher velocity of 454 Casull and 460 S&W cartridges, whereas the standard 45 cal XTP's are designed for 45 Colt velocities. Here is what happened to someone using a 45 Colt XTP from his ML:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....postcount=1065

The BC values given for these pistol bullets are for pistol velocities. These will drop when fired from a rifle. Look at Sierra's values for their bullets. They vary depending on velocity.

rodwha

Not only do the 44 cal XTP's (240 grn) have a higher BC, but a greater sectional density, which ought to give it a slightly better penetrating capability as well. It just leaves a slightly smaller hole...

And, I too, think it's dangerous to use 44 cal bullets in 45 cal sabots as it could separate from it and give a nasty surprise.

Breechplug

I ordered some black sabots (for me) and green for my buddy today. I have'nt figured out yet what Im gonna say to him. I guess I'll just lay it on the line and tell him he's doing it wrong and needs to use a green sabot made for the .430" dia bullets he's using and not the black ones made for .452" dia bullets. If he does'nt take my word for it I'll have him call Harvester or whoever he likes and see for himself. I'l also tell him it's dangerous. I'll let you all know what he says and does.
(BP)