Pyrodex/Triple 7 powder or pellets???
 

Which would you choose? Pellets or powder and why? I'm shooting the TC Impact. Thanks

None of your choices for me. I will only shoot BH 209 in an inline.

If you like the ability to work up your own load and make tweaks here and there with the powder charge then loose powder is the way to go.

If you like the convienence of drop and go and can find a bullet/sabot combination that works then use pellets.

More bang for your buck using loose powder as well.

I prefer loose, but after season I do plan on switching over to BH209.

Bh209
 

I am a guy who shot pellets for 6-7 years and was satified with the results. I recently went to BH209 and I can tell you 2 things for sure.

1. It is silly how accurate you can be shooting BH209.
2. Cleanup is SO much easier with BH209 than with pellets it is not even funny.

I won't ever go back to pellets unless something drastically changes with them.

Good luck and have fun!

Ditto to what every one has said. Loose is the way to go for both economical and developing an accurate load for your ML. If you can get BH209 I would seriously look at that powder. If it is to costly to you, then I would look at 777-2F. I was also going to recommend Swiss 3F, but its cost is pretty close to BH209 as well.

Once you develop your load that your ML likes or you are satisfied with. I would purchase a bunch of Lane Powder Vials or speed loaders that you can load up in advance when you either go shooting at the range or hunting.

Ed

If all you want to do is shoot a deer once a year and not play at the range like some of us, get a pound of loose Pyrodex RS. Its is inexpensive to shoot. Normally gives great results. And cleans up easy. If you want to shoot a lot, use black powder. It is the most cost effective powder out there.

I shoot on average five times a week. Each range session you can kiss 20-30 shots good bye. What do you think shooting BlackHorn 209 VS Black powder would cost me? Not to mention, only certain guns can shoot BlackHorn.

This idea of BlackHorn209 being a gift from the muzzleloader gods.. Sorry guys I don't agree. You can not clean the barrel with water and soap so you must use chemical cleaners. I don't find it more accurate then any other powder, BUT I do not shoot 200 yards either. 100 yards is about it for me. And any powder will do that, with all the power you need. And all the accuracy you need if you work up a load.

The most tempremental powder I have shot is BlackHorn 209. I had primers blow back in my face, primers blow out and stick in the breech plug, I had to purchase special primers much hotter then I normally shoot. Why?? Because Blackhorn 209 is tempermental. Got the right breech plug design for BlackHorn 209.. OH.. there is your problem By a new breech plug. Having hang fires.. OH... get a hotter primer the 209s your shooting are too cool.

Problems with BlackHorn 209 compared to any other powder.. its got to have its way or it don't play nice.

Clean up of BlackHorn 209 VS any other powder... while I can clean the barrel as fast with water as you can with chemicals, I win hands down in the breech plug department. It takes me twice as long to clean a breech plug to the condition I demand, shooting BlackHorn 209 then any other powder. There have been times I had to soak the plug and even scrape small spots with an ice pick to get this very hard.. I will call it carbon, off my plug. No other powder does that to me. Not even Triple Seven. The face of my breech plug in my Knight Disc was eaten off shooting BlackHorn. That same plug prior to Blackhorn probably had 500 rounds through it and was good as new. So.. you need a new breech plug.

If you want to keep it simple, and since your starting out, get a pound of Pyrodex RS or Triple Seven 2f, some bullets and go have fun. Later down the road, you can always experiment with the new stuff.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Pyrodex pellets or Pyrodex RS. Pyrodex is a very good and consistent powder: i used Pyrodex exclusively for years and killed a lot of game with it. Pyrodex is the most inexpensive powder available.

In my guns two Pyrodex pellets and 100 grains of Pyrodex RS shoots to the same point of aim. When hunting my gun was loaded at home with loose powder and my reloads were pellets. 777 is also a very good powder, never used 777 pellets and can't speak to them.

i've never used BH209 and likely never will. Some friends who tried BH 209 went back to Pyrodex and 777. Go ahead and use Pyrodex: Just clean your gun soon after shooting.

Ain't nothing wrong with FFF Goex as well... :)

Just takes a little time to clean up...

So you have two cold ones instead of one... :)

I agree with Cayugad almost 100% on this. The only difference of opinion is the use of Triple 7. I don't care for this powder.
I do not find BH209 more accurate nor easier to clean than black powder or Pyrodex. Just different methods (cleaners). After two range sessions with BH209 no one can tell me they clean their guns with only a couple patches. If they do then they aren't cleaning their gun effectively. Probably because they need to go referee an NFL game somewhere>> :) My last cleaning took no less than about 15 patches. Plus Cayugad's mention of cleaning the breech plug face is also true. I want all the carbon buildup off. This takes a brush, pick and a few more patches.
If I were you I would use Pyrodex - either RS or P.

We all get different results. It takes me 5 minutes at the most to clean my gun using BH 209. Including the breech plug.

About the same time as cleaning BP from a Hawken.

BH 209 doesn't absorb moisture, is very consistent shot to shot, good power, no swabbing no matter how many shots you shoot, and no misfires.

That's my experience, and I can't say the same for any other powder for a ML.

BINGO & DITTO!

Cayugad said it for me too. With GOEX, Pyrodex, or Triple Seven I use three patches to clean the bore - one to flush pump with plain water, one to dry (followed by a blast of carb cleaner), and one oil patch after it's been sitting for a while and I'm sure it's dry.

As for swabbing between shots with BH209. No you don't have to. But then again how long does it take to swab between shots? <1 min. with a spit patch and dry patch? And really, if you think of it - how many shots do you take at game while hunting? One, two at the most.
I will agree that BH209 is not hygroscopic. That is a definate plus when hunting in wet weather. (something I don't do anymore unless I am on a guided hunt) But I've left my Hawken flinter loaded an entire season many times with good old black powder in the damp wintery conditions of PA's January ML season. And it went off when I needed or wanted it to.

That's why we all have a choice. I choose BH 209, and i've tried them all.

right! I want to give Alliant Black MZ another go around to see how it shoots. Last time I tried it I wasn't too impressed. But then I come to find out that with the 300 gr bullets I am shooting I wasn't loading it hot enough. Recommendations say between 100 - 120 gr. I was only shooting about 80 I think.
And while not moisture absorbing like BH209, it is moisture resistant. And its not as fussy about igniting as BH209. And a heck of a lot cheaper.

Ignition with BH 209 is as simple as the Western BP. I don't find that a big deal. Certainly not enough to use another powder.

Well there are many things to consider but if you get crud ring from 777 you will wish you had never seen the stuff. my guess is about 70 to 80 % do.
Pyrodex is a good dependable powder and it will shoot almost as accurate as Blackhorn as Cayugad says it is good as any powder up to 100 yds actually I would say a bit further.
Not all of us shoot in out backyard like Cayugad and the clean up process wit Pyrodex is kind of smelly clean up in less than 5 minutes any place we happen to be with Blackhorn is a real +for some of us, then there are those of us that hunt the plains and the Midwest cornfields or even some mountains and when you need that flat trajectory and like here where there are bear deer and hogs with legal multiples on every thing but bear those dead accurate second third and on and on with out hesitation or cleaning do make a difference. So think about it and if you can try a small amount of each powder before you make your decision.

As you can tell, different strokes for different folks as far as powder, but for the life of me, I can't see any reason to shoot pellets. More expensive and less options for tweeking a load. Couple of speed loaders, and you are reloaded as fast as any pellets.

That said, I use used pyrodex and 777 powders in my sidelocks with equally decent results.

In my inlines, I have gone to BH 209, not because it cleans up faster/eaiser (seems about the same to me) but because I don't like to swab between each shot and don't always feel like cleaning the rifle as soon as the shooting session. Went to Colorado hunting two weeks ago, fired a fouling shot and loaded up, hunted for 7 days without shooting at game. Fired the bullet into a stump, put one swab through the bore and packed up the gun. Came home and waited a week before I cleaned the gun. Can't see any evidence of rust. Couse that is with a stainless barrel, but they rust too.

That said, BH 209 is expensive to shoot. It also won't work with all inlines. Have to have an enclosed system and a certain kind of breechplug to get it to ignite reliably

Believe me, I was not trying to start an argument on which powder is best, and why. When I read his post he asked about Pyrodex or Triple Seven in powder or loose form. Almost immediately he was steared off those choice, his choices I might add, to a different powder. I only wanted to point out that there was nothing in the least bit wrong with his original choices.

And yes, I shoot BlackHorn 209 powder. It is a good powder. Although for the first two shots I can get a flier in my rifles. After the first two shots.. its dead on.

And I know there are a lot of dedicated Black Horn 209 powder shooters. But I was running low on powder again. I was down to a pound of BlackHorn 209 and just a couple of Black Powder and almost out of Pyrodex and Triple Seven. So I ordered a half case of powder. And in that entire case, there was no BlackHorn 209 ordered. It just does not excite me like it does some of you. Although, it is a good powder.

After he works a good load up and is comfortable shooting his rifle, then I encourgage him or anyone to experiement with powders, primers, and projectiles and see which ones out there work for YOU the best.

Your disclamer will not hold up Cayugad, given your history as a known trouble maker on this forum. :s2:

Seriously though, you have a valid point. Too often new guys are bombarded with slightly (and sometimes not so slightly) off topic recommendations based on our own preferences, rather than solid answers to their specific question. It would be far better to answer the question first, then add other things they may want to consider.

Agreed, I see nothing at all wrong with either 777 or pyrodex. Cheap and accurate. But a newby needs to know that you can't shoot these powders and wait 3-4 days to clean the rifle. You have to clean it the day you shoot it. Otherwise it will rust and eventually pit the barrel.

In an Impact i would choose loose Triple7 out of your choices. It has the best performance, less smoke, less corrosive and easier to clean than Pyro. Its also cheaper than pellets (per shot) and easier to fine tune your load.

In the Black Powder Reference Forum there is a large post of all the characteristics of the different powders available to shooters. What their good points are and even their bad points. All members were encourgaged to chip in and tell what they could with their experiences of powders. It might be worth reading for a person new to muzzleloading.

As for my personal experience with Pyrodex and Triple Seven Pellets, they were on sale one year and I purchased two boxes of each. The Pyrodex Pellets worked so well I purchased more of them. The Triple Seven pellets were a mass of hangfires, miss fires, flaming pellets, etc... I vowed never to (and have not) purchase them again. But this is one persons experience and you need to understand that. Others probably have excellent luck with Triple Seven. Maybe I hit a bad batch or a load that got damaged somehow.

Well, when you ask someone who has tried all the powders, and leave out the one they think is the best offered right now. They're going to recommend it.

Forums are all about giving your opinion based on what you've experienced, or at least has been proven to work well. That's what I did.

All the powder work. Pyrodex is very corrosive. Even more so that real black powder. T7 gave me horrible crud rings.

I feel BH is the best powder if your gun has reliable ignition with it. Many have tested it, and it always came out the most consistent powder. Something is wrong if you don't get the same results.

Carlos is getting 1" groups at 300yds. Show me another sub doing that?

There's good reason for that. BH is much closer to a smokeless powder than any other sub. BH doesn't work in traditional guns, because it's a modern powder made for modern inlines. Powders that work in traditional guns can't compete.

I get just as consistent results with 777, Goex and pyrodex as I do BH. Am I doing something wrong? Because I've shot jugs upon jugs of BH without any issues whatsoever. Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone.

Case in point, I’ve never had a gun rust w/BH ever. But a huntin’ buddy of mine had his rust after leaving it dirty.



Many “modern inlines” have issues shooting it. And even the ones that don’t, you have to use a specific primer. That’s called a finicky powder.

I agree with Semi, I wish more people would answer the question people pose instead of trying to sound like commercials.

The problem I see with immediately giving an opinion on something that is not even mentioned is the fact of you don't know how informed the original poster already is. How do we know that he doesn't already know about BH209 and just simply has chosen not to use it? I know it is annoying for me when I have done all my research and have narrowed it down to something, then turn to the forums for advice only to have people telling me to use something else. I want to use what I asked about! I agree with what has said previously about answering the original posters question first and then maybe finding out what they think about something you would reccomed. BH209 has its advantages but it is not a must for muzzleloading. The powders and pellets listed in the original post will do just fine.

Chad...Then again. He might not know about BH 209. Now he has options. He got plenty of info on the powders he asked for. I shot T7 and Pyro for years. It works, but i think BH is a better hunting powder. If for no other reason that it doesn't absorb moisture, and if you don't find it more accurate than the other powders. It will be just as accurate. As for being corrosive? I need to see an official test to believe it. Not saying it doesn't, but I need to see it. For me...I get no corrosion.



TNH..The guns that don't have a problem shooting BH. Don't have to use a special primer. My Omega that has a great BP for BH would shoot any primer except the ML primers. The CVA will do the same wit a BH BP.

It's only the guns that don't have great BP's that need the hot primers. Like a CVA with the stock BP.

OK then I say I have used them all except Swiss, but I choose to use T7 because it works best for me in my parameters. I long ago ruled out pellets. Just weigh the pellets individually out of one box that will give you a good idea of why I do not rely on them.

BH is a great powder and I agree with all that say it is but for myself the cost per shot rules it out. The is not anything that BH offers that I can not get from T7 except the patch work which really is not a factor. Also maybe I am fortunate T7 in this area remains at $20 per pound.

If it were not for the fact that I burn 7-10 lbs of powder a year and the cost of a like amount of BH I would be shooting it, so it is all economics to me.

If you are an occasional shooter - shoot BH just do not believe all of the hype that you hear.

As said BH is good but it is not the end of the world...

What do you mean he has plenty of info on the powders he asked about? He obviously doesn't or he wouldn't have been asking for opinions. You were also the first one to reply to his thread and you didn't give him any information on the powders at question. Its like going into the gun shop to look at a gun or two and the guy behind the counter hands you something else telling you its way better than what you want to see. Well me personally wouldn't decline seeing that gun that he thinks is better but I want to see my choices first and then maybe hear what he has to say about something different.

I did say BH is a good hunting powder. Price wouldn't even matter for that.

If I was going to spend all the time I use to at the range. I'd use something else.

Still don't know why you don't get a crud ring Mike? Unless you're swabbing it out all the time?

He didn't get answers about T7 and Pyro in this thread? Why do you always want to argue? I give my opinion. Sorry, if you don't agree. I don't agree with a lot of things said on this forum. That's how forums are.

btw..Why don't you say something to all the others that said they like BH 209? I also didn't tell him to use BH. I simply said that's what I like better.

With a 209 primer I can get it but it takes 4-5 shots before it might effect loading...

I do run a slightly moist windex patch afer each shot, in fact I use the same patch til it dries, but I do that because that is the condition my bore would be in while hunting - so everything is the same. you have or at least you suppose to allow the barrel to cool a little bit in between shots, and I am not good at that, so I run a patch to burn some time.

I think shooting BH that is even more important, waiting not patching, BH burns so much hotter in temperature it really does heat the barrel and running a sabot down on a real hot bore is asking for a problem - let it cool...

I have no paitence...

My problem with T7 was I was getting a pretty good crud ring with just one shot. I really don't like swabbing when i'm hunting. Unless it's a sidelock, and i'm reenacting.

It's just nice to know with BH I don't need to ever worry about get down the next shot while hunting.

While hunting I do not run a patch... just shoot and reload and with any luck I do not need the reload anyway...

I hunt small game and coyotes too. Lots of reloading. ;)

Plus, even with big game. I want another load in the gun just in case. If nothing else to keep away a bear that thinks my elk looks tasty.

If you see my first post I did address it to everyone in general that mentioned bh209, you just happened to be the only one to respond to my post. And yes he did get answers about t7 and pyro but you said he got plenty of info about it in response to my post but you were the very first person to respond on this thread without answering his question. So it is not like he got plenty of information to his question and then you jumped in with another suggestion, actually it went the other way around. Its not that your not allowed to have an opinion, that is perfectly fine.

I also have no disagreement about which powder, in fact BH209 would be my top choice of BP subs but if someone wants to use something else that is perfectly fine and the powder is perfectly fine. It seems that some make t7 and pyro out to be some kind of inferior powder as far as accuracy goes or something when if fact it can be just as accurate as BH209. Each of these different powders have there pros and cons and people just have to weigh each of them and decide. I for one along with 3 other family members have never experienced a crud ring so bad after one shot (or 2,3,4 shots) that another bullet couldn't be loaded with t7 or pyro.

I gave him an option. I knew he's get plenty of info about the two powders he asked about. Which he did.

Now he has info about T7, Pyro, and BH. What's wrong with that. Does it all have to come in an order that you approve of?

Cmon Chad. You're just being argumentative. It's not that important. He didn't receive info that wasn't helpful. Whether he chooses to use it or not.

I shoot pellets. Pyrodex pellets. Powerbelt bullets. I started out shooting with loose about 12 years ago. Switched to pellets. I hunt, don't do much range shooting, just hunt. Sight in my guns before each season. Just bought a CVA Optima, shoots tight groups out to 100yds with two 50gr pellets and a 295 Powerbelt hallow point. Shoot the aerotips also in my other gun(wife shoots it). Same pellets but 245 aerotips. I've killed a mess of deer out to 100yds or even a little farther, most between 50 and 100. Don't care for sabots, prefer a 50cal bullet for a 50cal gun. The pyrodex is a little smelly but I clean my guns outside anyway. Cleaning is easy. I dont leave my guns loaded ever, always clean right away. If I kill one I reload right away and shoot it that night if I don't need a second shot. That's what I do and why. Hope it helps you and good luck this season, Joe.

I still use Pyrodex RS Just for information I have shot 15 shots and nevered cleaned barrel. Kept a 1 1/2 to 2" group all day. Now cleaning after each shot CVA shoots 1" groups . I was using 90 gs powder. I might try BH some day but Pyrodex has worked and I will load at the place where I hunt and leave gun loaded for about 3 to 5 days and never had a problem with rust or ignition. I do clean same day I fired ML. Cleaning is important to me. It takes me about 30 mins to clean sparkling clean. I enjoy cleaning a ML. It reminds me of people cleaning there weapons and I don't mind at all .Easy is fine but a little work is good for me. It is relaxing, So which ever powder you choose have fun and enjoy. Be confident in shooting with Powder you use. I have all the confidence in the world with Pyrodex RS and I feel they will all work Just fine. Enjoy and don't worry about all the openions you hear because we all have our openions and feel we are all right.

Try them all, just remember to use regular smokeless cleaner with Blackhorn and hot water and dish soap with everything else. After you have shot a can of each you will know what you like, wipe between shots with a slightly damp patch with everything except Blackhorn and use a hand twisted drill to clean out the breech plug beyond where the 209 sits.
Personally I Use Blackhorn in my inlines and Pyrodex in my Traditionals as thats what works best for me. Good luck

just depends on your gun mine is real good with 150 grains so I just use pellets