What do you think in regards to American products?
 

We all know CVA guns and Bergara barrels are made in Spain. What I wonder is are they an American company that outsources things like so many or are they actually a foreign company.
see the article where it shows that the Dikar Co-op in Bergara Spain at the time of writing owned 100 % of BPI stock.( makers of CVA, Bergara barrels ,etc.)http://randywakeman.com/DangerousMuz...rsAHistory.htm



I think if more American manufacturers and more Americans had the type of attitude ( as portrayed in the video below) we might be better off .


here's a link to the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1FOysx5OuQ




Then again in our day and age, I guess many could care less. Till America is history and everyone is standing in the unemployment line complaining, or inching closer in the soup kitchen line.

This is only related a little bit. It's why I won't buy a TC gun.

I was born and brought up in Springfield Mass. Home of S&W. A Lot of my family worked for them. I don't want to go into details, but i'll just say they weren't treated right.

When I found out S&W bought TC. I knew i'd never buy another one. American or not.

Just my view.

I have one more comment.

Cabelas sells CVA guns. I'm finding it real hard to believe that they would sell a gun that was blowing up, that wasn't owner error.

I can understand that . I was disappointed when SW bought them too.
They were a better company before . S and W may be the downfall for TC

I don't think guns blowing up apply too much with the new CVA's
I posted the link because I would really like to know if Dikar Coop owns BPI . My only problem with CVA was the way customer service treated me a few years ago. Every time I think about Cva that incident comes to mind. And I am very much into the idea that we need to keep as much manufacturing in our own country as possible.
In all honesty if I could get over the C'S experience I would probably like to try one of them MR's
But I like Knight's philosophy of business . Given the choice of 2 equal items I will buy the American made one even if it costs a little more

Everything being equal. I'd buy American too. I usually do, but things aren't always equal.

I drive a Jeep, and all my mods, tires etc is all American. Guns...not so much with muzzleloaders. CF gun.. absolutely.

jeeps are canadian eh

Besides if a cva shooter has any issues and needs some help, they all know who to ask for help.

Also we always see people talking down on cva or traditions about not being american made, yet these same people buy lyman and or pedersoli guns made in italy.

Jeeps are made by Chrysler.

Don't mess with my Jeep.

yeah but chrysler is canadian eh, dont you know what they are aboot eh

Yep, that would be me. Love my Pedersoli's and Lyman's and as far as CVA and Traditions, if it's any consolation I consider Traditions the bottom of the barrel,. I would take a CVA over a Traditions all day long . I looked up junk in the dictionary and there was a picture of a Traditions .

Nice try, but Jeeps are built in Toledo Ohio. eh!

close enough to canada eh ;)

My Jeep wants an apology next time you see it.

It feels really bad now.

I love to buy American. All my muzzleloaders except for my Lyman GPR are American made. (Whites and Knights) The only problem is they were all made 12 to 20 years ago so buying them doesn't help the American worker too much. If I had a mind to buy a new muzzleloader,and I donot, I am guessing it would be between Knight and CVA.
Part of the problem with foreign goods overtaking the market is that it is hard for the American companies to compete with their prices. Part of it is that the remaining American companies do not always shine when it comes to service for their customers. It is not always that the customer doesn't care about America, often it is that the company just isn't doing its job. JMHO
Art

Jeeps are assembled by Chrysler using globally-sourced components from low cost countries.

What isn't in America? Leupold scopes have Asian glass as an example.

i prefer to buy well made US products when they are available. i will not buy a shoddy product regardless where it is made. When it comes to guns i have this hatred of Tupperware.

Why? It keeps food fresh.

Here is the way I see. I spent the past 40 years of my life working in quality assurance for both private industry and government. So I know quality when I see it. And the same for shoddy work. And sometimes the old saying "you get what you pay for" doesn't always apply. Lets take MLs for example being that this is a BP thread. I own Knight and T/C MLs. All my T/Cs are Hawkens but they do not have T/C barrels. Every one of them has a GM barrel on it. Why, Because the GMs just outshoot the T/Cs. But both are American made. Now I did just purchase a CVA Accura VR. Why, because it cost less and IMO is a better value in price and quality and performance than the T/C Triumph I almost did buy.
Just about all my CF firearms are American made S&W, Remington, Savage and Marlin. But look closely at the newer CFs coming out by Remington and Savage. Their low end models look like they were finished with a file. The bolts feel like they have sand in them just to name a few problems. I know they make these models to be inexpensive but come on! Now go to the higher end models: the Remington 700 for example and compare it to a comparatively priced Tikka T3 (made in Finland). The Tikka's bolt is so slick - like water on glass. The Remingon not so much. And the Tikka guarantees it accuracy.
Pride and craftsmanship for most companies have been replaced by greed for the almighty dollar. Sad but true.

I owned a CVA traditional rifle when I was a kid. I don't remember anything about the gun other than it was a cheap hunk of junk. I shot PRB's out of it and even managed to kill some rabbits, rock chucks, and a fox.

When I got old enough to get a large caliber CF gun I gave the CVA to a guy that wanted it to hang in his house. I didn't go back to ML until I got a Knight BK 92. I still have that gun, it is a great shooting gun but it was the cheep version of the mk85.
I shot my largest mule deer with that gun.




I loaned it out to my wife's cousin a couple years ago and he killed a fantastic antelope with it.




Since then I have used nothing but TC Renegades and Hawkens with Green Mountain barrels. Green Mountain puts out a quality product and stand behind their product.

The shooting world would have to come to a complete end for me to buy a CVA. Companies have only one chance at a first impression. They blew it and that is that. I have gone on to better rifles. Ron

So, you never owned a CVA inline, but you have a strong opinion against them?

Classic.

As paranoid as Cabelas was about selling the 10ml from Savage, I would agree with you completely.

No I don't own a CVA inline and like I said before I won't due to a poor first impression. Here in Idaho some inlines are legal if the cap either #11 or musket cap is exposed to the weather. We have a lot of other rules that limit what we can use in a ML hunt. For me I don't have the need for an inline. If an inline is held to Idaho rules they won't out shoot my Renegades or my Hawken.

CVA must be doing something right; they sell more guns than any other company.

Ok back to the topic at hand. I would like to know what you think about the business philosophy in the video. Do you agree or disagree and why. If you didn't watch the video go to the first post and watch it before answering
Thanks

Then you should have answered the question of why you buy American. Instead of slamming a gun that hasn't been made in years.

I watched the video and linked it to my facebook. I thought it was a great video.

I thought I did. I guess you didn't catch it. CVA = Junk. I don't have to make that mistake again. Ron

Ok, now I watched it Chet. I think they should sell their product based on its quality and on the kind of service they are going to provide. I think they were a little heavy on waving the flag just to sell their product. I believe what they said but I just think they spread it on a little too deep for my taste.

Uneducated guess. You really know nothing about the CVA guns sold now. You have one biased opinion you formed as a kid on a gun that has nothing to do with the gun sold for the last few years. It's like saying I won't buy a Ford, because the Model A sucked. It makes no sense.

You're happy with the Renegade. Good for you, but it's not the only good gun out there.

Your right, Renegades and Hawken's are not the only good ones. Knight is also a great company and I would buy another one.

BTW the Model A was a good car everything after that sucked.:party0005:

Ron

Muley Hunter

I am somewhat in the same boat as Ron, I previously have owned 4 different CVA and I really should say BPI products, because at one time I think the original CVA campany produced some darn nice side hammer guns. The side hammer, and 3 different inlines that I purchased were all after BPI took over. These rifles were purchased when I first started doing the ML thing and I was a broke college student. Wal-Mart provided me my first opportunities to get into ML's - the rifles were cheap! dirt cheap! as compared to White, TC, Remington, Ruger, Knight and others.

I should say they allowed me to shoot a ML and they were somewhat on the accurate side, in those days I really did not know what ML accuracy was. But, in realality those guns were junk as compared to any of the guns listed above - but they were cheap!

So I go along with Ron's assesment and would write the same thing... "No I don't own a CVA inline and like I said before I won't due to a poor first impression." I would go a step further and say I can not imagine that I would ever own a CVA even though they have come a long ways in their development - except most of their development has been to copy other successful ideals and then incorporate it into their current rifles.

Using foreign labor will always allow you to under sell most anything made in America, and the fact is more and more blue collar jobs are moving and will continue to move off shore as long as the cost of labor and manufacturing is less and the product can be sold to Americans at American prices... Shoot... Romney made millions doing this very thing.

Everybody can have their own opinion of a product. Obviously we can't all like the same thing. How boring would that be?

However, there's a huge difference between not liking a product, and calling it junk. A modern CVA inline is far from junk in any unbiased persons opinion.

I owned an Omega. I liked it at first, but it had some problems that annoyed me, and I sold it. I've said many times that I didn't like the gun. I would never call it junk though. That would be foolish, because too many know it's not. The same applies to CVA.

Good enough, but that side hammer, hunter bolt and two fire bolts were not good - really not good

I can't disagree. I never owned a CVA sidelock.

Jon seems like the only one who likes them. :D

I guess I am foolish because I won't buy the CVA junk. I am ok with that. The money I save from not buying new CVA junk will give me more money to go on hunts and kill trophy animals. That works for me. Ron

I think the ones Jon has are the older CVA side hammers - sides Jon like anything that gets him points with some company...

Cheap or shoddy material, that's the Wikipedia definition of junk and appears to be the way it is being used in regards to the rifles spoken of.
Another factor to consider is the major difference in philosophy of business's. Read Randy's article and the business aspect of CVA was clear . then compare that to the video.
Quite a difference in that as well as quality and other factors involved.

just finished shooting a cva hawken built in 1986, beautiful shooter! 80gr 3f pyrodex P, 370gr maxiball, cci #11 mag cap, took 3 shots with a wad and ended up with a 3" string at 50 yards. Removed the wad and took 3 more shots which went directly through a hole that was there from the other shots. Im lucky i slightly pulled one otherwise i would have felt that i missed completely. You could cover those 4 shots "3 actually" with a nickel.

you tend to get foolish on a lot of things lately :happy0157: