Proprietary marketing has been increasing in many areas. electronics for example. Use to be a universal usb cord was provided. Now everything has is own proprietary cord. Every camera, phone, e-caller etc. has to have it's own. I'm sure you guys can think of many things you have purchased where any accessories are designed as proprietary and must be purchased from the company also. makes sense as far as added revenue. I dont like it but it is the trend. Now how about Muzzleloaders. Well the 52 cal is a proprietary caliber, and i bet a lot more are sold than we think.
So now to the real point at hand. How about a fast twist 45. cal. i bet it could be marketed as long as Knight manufactured at least 2 bullets that shot well in it. Here's the reason:
I took a trip to a sporting goods store and hung around doing a personal survey whenever I found someone near the blackpowder section. My survey consisted of the following questions.
1.Do you have a muzzleloader?
2. what bullets do you shoot?
3. why that bullet?
4. have you experimented with different bullets?While not a formal survey it was enlightening. talked to about 25 people
23 named a bullet and the reason they shot it was because the guy where they bought the gun or a friend recommended that bullet. None had done any real experimenting.
My conclusion was that while many on this forum shoot a lot of different bullet the average joe does not. He shoots something that someone said would be good in his gun.
So if Knight provided a bullet I bet people who buy the gun would buy the bullet recommended and a large bullet selection wouldnt be a factor as long as what was available shot well.
Online buying has dominated sales , (just look at the christmas season stats) so having to get bullets from Knight wouldnt be a factor . As matter of fact i bet more companies would jump on the wagon to try and pick up after market sales of things like bullets.

I know most will disagree but just wanted to share those thoughts on my survey.

I've never seen any muzzleloader in my area shoot anything but Powerbelts, because that's all the local shop sells. I've never heard one complaint about bad performance.


This of course does not include those shooting a PRB.

I agree to a certain extent. Marketing and availability seem to do most of the selling. If Knight were to heavily market a bullet and make sure it is widely available, then people would buy it. But Knight is a much smaller company than TC or CVA, whose products dominate the market due to lots of marketing and the fact you can pick up their products anywhere. I'm not sure Knight has the marketing budget to compete....

In my neck of the woods, it seems that at least 80% of the blackpowder hunters only shoot their rifles once or twice a year in preparation for muzzy season. I would say at least 80% use pellets (either Pyrodex or T7) in conjunction with Powerbelts or TC packaged bullets (either Shockwaves or XTPs). A small number use Barnes. These are the bullets that are widely available in the stores around. I would reckon that there is a wider variety in the types of rifles the guys around me use than the types of projectiles.

Having said that, I am the only person that I've seen around that uses a .45 cal muzzy. It's very difficult to even find a caliber other than .50 in any of the stores around selling muzzys.

1874sharpsshooter

I have to say personally I really dislike Proprietary marketing. I understand it but I do dislike it.

It really becomes of a problem for us that live in small town USA and can get the proprietary parts we might need in a timely manner.

Another fact is price competition, it certainly takes away from that.

In the case of the 52, Proprietary to Knight, I would not have bought mine if Knight had stayed with the policy that they would not sale empty sabots. Even then when I checked the price of the sabots with other MMP sabots the price was comparable.

Had Knight stayed with the policy of selling bullets and sabots only - I would not have purchased the 52.

Most big businesses these days really want to control the you and the marketplace, kinda like the political parties. I hope we as consumers can avoid falling into the trap completely.

The main thing I don't like about proprietary marketing is that in almost all cases it makes the costs go up for the consumer, in this case the shooter. Companies of course need to make a profit but when they buy out the small producer or get exclusive rights to his products and make his products proprietary it is the consumer that loses. Knight and Lehigh for example.

1874sharpsshooter

While I have no scientific evidence to support my thoughts either, the majority of people I talk to have never shot more than 2 different bullets in their MLs. They simply shoot what someone told them to shoot.

So to your point about fast twist .45s (or any other "Proprietary" guns) it seems the simple solution is to include the proper bullet for that gun with any purchase. When the individual buys the gun, it comes with 2 packs of __ bullets which are designed for fast twist .45s or the .52 or a .57 cal... This way the gun shoots with the projectiles designed for it. Heck CVA puts those crappy powerbelts in with their guns and people shoot them like crazy.

We here on the forum seem to think that people are like us who test different bullets/powders/guns and primers are normal when in fact, we are a very small portion of the muzzleloader shooting community. To this day, I am still the only one I know personally who hunts exclusively with a ML.

Add one more to your list...

Yep, and those crappy Powerbelts keep on killing game.

I guess I should have been more specific. When I say "personally", I mean someone that I hunt with and know through contact outside of the internet. Again, we on the forum are the few, not the majority.

Oldsmell.flounder,TN & 1874 all bring up some very good points.The issues with the 45 cal popularity isn't the twist.the biggest obstacle is the .50 cal and it's huge aftermarket,the lack of heavier bullets,some states that won't allow the use of the .45 during M/L season and to a small degree the 1:20.If your a small company with a small market share,limited advertising and exposure compared to there top 2 competitors how do you go about climbing the mountain in front of you? do you fall back on a 1:20 twist that is going to make you efforts even more difficult, by offering 2 additional expensive brass bullets? and what do you do with the folks that already shoot your 1:30&1:28 twist and the smokeless crowd,that want more .45 cal less expensive bullet options? do you just abandon them.it makes much more sense to also develop jacketed bullets in the 220-.250 gr range along with those brass bullets,which the 1:20,1:28 & 1:30 will shoot,which broadens your share of the bullet market with the sub groups and the smokeless crowd and helps with promoting the .45 cal rifle sales.IMHO leaving the .45 cal 1:30 and developing more jacketed bullets is the better move. there is another route where i actually believe the .45 cal 1:20 sales would be far better than just introducing 2 additional brass bullets.i will go as far as saying 10 fold better it just needs to be introduced to folks that have the big picture in mind and not there special interests..