Mythbusted or not?? your call
12-11-2011, 12:18 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 550
Mythbusted or not?? your call
Before I left on my much needed vacation and hunting. Alot of the Knight guys had been talking about how much more accurate a Knight with a bolt and a 1 piece stock is versus a break actio gun.
So, I bought a Knight Mountaineer and even though I rarely shoot at these ranges, decided to give 200yds. a go. Not saying that someone else couldn't do better but, here are my results. The day was cold 20 degrees and sunny, with a 5mph breeze from left to right. No cool down between shots, figured it was cold enough.
First the Knight Mountaineer
Scope Leupold UltimateSlam
Range 200yds. per leupold rangefinder
Powder 110gr. BH209
Bullet 260gr. PT Golds
Sabot Crush rib harvester
Primer FED209A
Group 3.75"
Next up is the trusted TC Endeavor with it's two piece stock, sloppy hinge pin, and heavy trigger.
Thompson Center Encore/Endeavor
Scope Burris FF II
Range 200yds. per leupold rangefinder
Powder 110gr. BH209
Bullet 260gr. PT Golds
Short Black harvester
Primer FED209A
Group 4.25"
Conclusion: There is not a deer alive that is going to notice the 1/2" difference between the two. I also belive the hype about a one pice stock and bolt action is still prefference and has nothing to do with the accuracy of a gun (maybe the shooter) not the gun.
Pros: I love the grey laminate stock and the trigger is a dream to shoot. really didn't realize how stiff the trigger was on my Encore.
Cons: The FED209A is unbelievably tight in the breachplug of the Mountaineer. Only other thing I can come up with is cleaning with the breach threads being so far in the action.
So, I bought a Knight Mountaineer and even though I rarely shoot at these ranges, decided to give 200yds. a go. Not saying that someone else couldn't do better but, here are my results. The day was cold 20 degrees and sunny, with a 5mph breeze from left to right. No cool down between shots, figured it was cold enough.
First the Knight Mountaineer
Scope Leupold UltimateSlam
Range 200yds. per leupold rangefinder
Powder 110gr. BH209
Bullet 260gr. PT Golds
Sabot Crush rib harvester
Primer FED209A
Group 3.75"
Next up is the trusted TC Endeavor with it's two piece stock, sloppy hinge pin, and heavy trigger.
Thompson Center Encore/Endeavor
Scope Burris FF II
Range 200yds. per leupold rangefinder
Powder 110gr. BH209
Bullet 260gr. PT Golds
Short Black harvester
Primer FED209A
Group 4.25"
Conclusion: There is not a deer alive that is going to notice the 1/2" difference between the two. I also belive the hype about a one pice stock and bolt action is still prefference and has nothing to do with the accuracy of a gun (maybe the shooter) not the gun.
Pros: I love the grey laminate stock and the trigger is a dream to shoot. really didn't realize how stiff the trigger was on my Encore.
Cons: The FED209A is unbelievably tight in the breachplug of the Mountaineer. Only other thing I can come up with is cleaning with the breach threads being so far in the action.
Last edited by EndeavorShooter; 12-11-2011 at 12:20 PM.
12-11-2011, 12:38 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
EndeavorShooter
If you are interested you can send that plug to Lehigh and get a modfication of the primer pocket completed or you can send it here and I can do it. And just a FYI all newer Lehigh/Knight breechplug primer pockets have been programmed to be opened to allow use of a wider range of primers.
+ they have added another hardening process to the surface of the plug for the 2012 offering.
Cons: The FED209A is unbelievably tight in the breachplug of the Mountaineer.
+ they have added another hardening process to the surface of the plug for the 2012 offering.
Last edited by sabotloader; 12-11-2011 at 01:08 PM.
12-11-2011, 12:44 PM
#3
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 98
I think where you will see a difference in the to style of guns is over time.
If you use them both pretty regular (several good years of shooting ), I beieve the advantage would go to the bolt style of gun just for moving parts getting wear. But if a person was to shoot moderately I dont see much differents
If you use them both pretty regular (several good years of shooting ), I beieve the advantage would go to the bolt style of gun just for moving parts getting wear. But if a person was to shoot moderately I dont see much differents
12-11-2011, 12:53 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 550
I think where you will see a difference in the to style of guns is over time.
If you use them both pretty regular (several good years of shooting ), I beieve the advantage would go to the bolt style of gun just for moving parts getting wear. But if a person was to shoot moderately I dont see much differents
If you use them both pretty regular (several good years of shooting ), I beieve the advantage would go to the bolt style of gun just for moving parts getting wear. But if a person was to shoot moderately I dont see much differents
So, do you buy a bolt gun because it may happen? Doesn't make sense to me.
Either way, they are both keepers!!!
12-11-2011, 01:54 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
I have to agree with Boone on the accuracy difference between a bolt and break action.when i see people like LEE and MD who shoot constantly with there break actions and continue to have tack driving accuracy,it can lead to only one conclusion that it's a myth.IMHO, the only thing keeping company's from making CF break actions, is the fact that you only get one shot and with a bolt 4 or more.(people want the luxury of multiple shots)Knight makes a nice rifle. i am anxious to see the 2012 line up.
12-11-2011, 01:58 PM
#7
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 369
I have to agree with Boone on the accuracy difference between a bolt and break action.when i see people like LEE and MD who shoot constantly with there break actions and continue to have tack driving accuracy,it can lead to only one conclusion that it's a myth.IMHO, the only thing keeping company's from making CF break actions, is the fact that you only get one shot and with a bolt 4 or more.(people want the luxury of multiple shots)Knight makes a nice rifle. i am anxious to see the 2012 line up.
12-11-2011, 02:31 PM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
EndeavorShooter
A couple of things, I took my Endeavor apart and honed the mating surfaces and put a Bellm spring in it { of course I used to have a muzzle loading and archery shop and I tear into every gun I buy just because I want to} my trigger is just what I want I don't like them much under 3#for a hunting gun.
The story of a single piece stock etc is more or less true or at least it was up to the point where moder engineering change things now they have auto sniper rifle.
The truth of the matter is the bolt action is very strong and with 60,000 PSI in a modern cartridge rifle it is the most reasonable way to combine strength and accuracy.
Trouble is in a muzzle loader you don't have lugs locking into the barrel so the length the bolt takes up adds nothing but length and weight and no strength.
As for the one piece stock adding accuracy if that's true then how come my Triumph and my Endeavor will both out shoot my Omega which has the same advantages they are talking about. Now as far as the time frame is concerned I burn over a case of Blackhorn and a half case of Pyrodex a year and have been shooting the Triumph for a number of years ever since they came out and I could get one and the Endeavor for a couple of years and the will still shoot as good as they did new.
One other thing I will mention i always put thin steel washers between the forearm and the barrel studs to float the forearm so I do not have to worry about just how it sits on the bench every time I shoot it.
i don't doubt some people believe these things but I do not think they look at reality with open eyes.
A couple of things, I took my Endeavor apart and honed the mating surfaces and put a Bellm spring in it { of course I used to have a muzzle loading and archery shop and I tear into every gun I buy just because I want to} my trigger is just what I want I don't like them much under 3#for a hunting gun.
The story of a single piece stock etc is more or less true or at least it was up to the point where moder engineering change things now they have auto sniper rifle.
The truth of the matter is the bolt action is very strong and with 60,000 PSI in a modern cartridge rifle it is the most reasonable way to combine strength and accuracy.
Trouble is in a muzzle loader you don't have lugs locking into the barrel so the length the bolt takes up adds nothing but length and weight and no strength.
As for the one piece stock adding accuracy if that's true then how come my Triumph and my Endeavor will both out shoot my Omega which has the same advantages they are talking about. Now as far as the time frame is concerned I burn over a case of Blackhorn and a half case of Pyrodex a year and have been shooting the Triumph for a number of years ever since they came out and I could get one and the Endeavor for a couple of years and the will still shoot as good as they did new.
One other thing I will mention i always put thin steel washers between the forearm and the barrel studs to float the forearm so I do not have to worry about just how it sits on the bench every time I shoot it.
i don't doubt some people believe these things but I do not think they look at reality with open eyes.
Last edited by lemoyne; 12-11-2011 at 02:34 PM.