Optimas rock.

Again average guys who get ML to hunt with arent going to ever see the difference between what a few of die hard guys have been able to achieve!!! Because they will get pellets or not apply the same consistent loading technique's are what ever the case will be but they will sight there 4 moa gun in and go to the woods and kill deer or what ever and never look back, unless they have ML OCD then that is were the problem starts
What Powder
What Primer
What Sabot
What Bullet
What
What
Never ends a guy could ever be able to try every powder every sabot and every bullet combo there is? Or Could he ?

Where do you stop?

Or they'll shoot the deer somewhere, won't find it, and blame the bullet.

Simple process, select what bullet you want to shoot....Match it with a sabot that gives a proper fit...Pick a primer, go with Goex FFF and vary charge to find most accurate load...Done...

There is a lot of the 384 people in our club that have muzzle loaders, a good percentage of them are bolt actions if they are so much better how come none of them can beat my Endeavor or my Triumph for group off the bench?
How well the action is built and how well the gun is tuned and how well the shooter knows how to use a bench rest is a good part of it the rest is knowing what load the gun likes and being very consistent. This bit about one action being better or more accurate than the others in a muzzle loader is male cow manure. Some people can not resist caring it over from cartridge guns using smokeless where because of the greater flexing at 60,000 PSI it does make a difference in a light weight sporting arm.

I just love to shoot and that also means the enjoyment of getting my rifle to shoot the best it can. Why would anyone not wanrt to get the best out of their rifle????????? To me a gun that will shoot sub moa at 100yds will compensate for much more shooter errors than a gun that is already spraying 4" at 100yds on it's own.

I haven't read this thread too far along yet, but just wanted to comment. While this may be accurate, I don't think the "shooting world" is thinking "muzzleloaders." They are really thinking about centerfire arms. The type of action, whether break open, bolt, falling block, etc. impacts a whole ton more variables in a centerfire rifle than it does in a muzzleloader. So, to apply that logic to muzzleloaders is not exactly apples to apples. There is no way you will ever convince me that a "bolt action" muzzleloader has any advantage over an Omega-style, falling block type action. It's all in the quality of the parts and the touch of the person who puts it all together.

No it won't. If there is a deer I want to take and say the only shot I get at him is his throat patch through an opening in thick brush, I am going to take that shot and I am going to kill that deer with a 1-1.5 MOA gun. But not with a 4 MOA gun.

It may be "my choice" and not a shot the "average hunter" would take, but it is an option that should be on the table nonetheless.

There are 6 pages of comments but not one person has talked about what I think is the biggest problem with break action guns with a two piece stock. And that is the problem with the forearm. I know alot of shooter who have wandering POI's that are directly attrributable to a forearm that is separate.

Most of us on here who shoot alot can probably shoot a BB gun better than a regular guy can shoot a BR rifle. That was not the point of the thread.

Not one guy has addressed the differences between the bolt and the break action. And why one is stonger than the other. And hence a stronger action will in theory be a more accurate rifle. Someone please eplain how that is wrong??

Please.

The problem is you can't.

Separate forearms present alot of problems to the accuracy of rifles. It is that simple. And that separate forearm can cause wandering POI's on rifles. Heck I bet I have more break action rifles and barrels than most on this forum. They are my favorite rifle(and handgun). But I know the above facts to be true.

You guys think I am attacking break action rifles. I am not. I am only pointing out the inadequacies.

Plus what ever group you shoot off a bench. You can at least double or triple that group in the woods. So if you are shooting a 4" group off the bench. Then you are easily shoting a 10"-12" group in the woods. On that I would bet.

And if you are shooting a 4" group at 100 yards. Then you have absolutely no business what so ever shooting at game past 125 yards. Period. Tom.

I only use a bench to sight in a scope or open sights. From that point on i'm shooting offhand, on my knee, or on sticks.

Just like I do in the field.

I don't think these guys shoot a group 3 times larger in the field.