slowr1der

I got out to shoot my muzzle loader some today before our season starts and I'm wondering if I now have a scope that's given up the ghost. Let me start off by saying it's a cheap $30 Tasco Bucksight from Walmart and I'd not buy a cheap scope like that now, but at the time I didn't know better, and I've had it for 5 years or so and it's never given me a reason to doubt it or change it. It's also got a lot of memories to go along with it mounted atop my muzzle loader, so I really am hesitant to just change it. Everything else I hunt with has much more expensive optics now.

Anyway, this past season I removed the scope from the gun and then reinstalled it. When I went to zero it, I didn't have the greatest bench to shoot off of, but it was good enough. I shot 5 shots, and 2 of them were about 2" right, and 3 of them in the bullseye. I figured I must have pulled the 2 that went to the right, and that it was close enough. I went hunting, and the bullet impacted exactly where I wanted it to with the deer I shot. I thought all ways fine. At the end of the season I took the gun apart and cleaned it well, including taking it out of the stock, etc. The gun had also ridden in the truck some during the season and while I didn't drop it, I'm sure it did feel some bumps in there.

Fast forward a month or two and I got it out just to shoot. When I shot it, all of the shots impacted to the right about 2". I thought this seemed odd, but then I thought maybe that I just didn't have it sighted in well and the 3 in the bullseye had been what I'd pulled, or maybe where I'd taken it out of the stock, it just was too many variables to rule it as a scope failure. I didn't end up getting out to sight it back in until July. So in July I got out and shot it to sight it in.

This is what I got. The two to the right were the first two, then I moved it too far left, and then I moved it again and shot those 3 dead center. I was happy with it, and even tried banging the scope around some by banging on it, etc. It held up all day and shot where I wanted.

I took it home, cleaned it without taking it out of the stock, and put it away.

So fast forward to 2.5 months later and I get it out today to go shoot it. I go to the range instead of shooting on our property, so once again I don't have the best rest, but it works well enough to get by. So I take the first shot shooting at the small target in the corner. I miss the paper completely, but then I shot a couple more. What I now notice is once again it's shoot 2" to the right.
Ignore all the other bullet holes, but you can see the two to the right. One is right over 1" right, and one about 2". Also ignore the group size as it's due to me not having a great rest.


The only factors that changed were I was shooting slightly downhill when I zeroed it, and now at this range you have to shoot uphill. Could that effect it shooting to the right? I know my other guns shot about 1" low here from when they were sighted in on our property where we shoot downhill, but the other one wasn't off windage wise.

Anyway, I made some adjustments and got it centered again, and it will shoot dead center all day long. It shots a tight group like normal, it shoots the same spot if you bang on it somewhat, and it just seems to work exactly like it should when at the range. I'm just wondering where it's going to shoot 2 months from now.

Has anyone else had anything like this happen? Does it sound like a bad scope? The scopes I've had go bad in the past have always shot all over the place. It just seems really odd to me that it would shoot great all day and not move from recoil, getting bumped, or anything like that, but that it would lose zero in the house. Should I suspect this scope, or could it have been shooting uphill, or some other factor? Have any of you all had a scope do go bad and do this, or do they normally just start shooting all over the place and moving with each shot?

Like I said, I've just got a lot of great memories with this combo and I hate to change it, when something may not even be bad. Otherwise if it wasn't a situation like this I'd change the scope for piece of mind.

quake

Have you double-checked your base/ring screws to make sure something hasnt come loose?

corey012778

i agree with quake, I had that happen twice to me this year two different guns two different scopes/ring combos. both cases, the base screws came loose. next outing, my 50yrd targets lost there centers.

slowr1der

I haven't. I figured if they were loose it would move the POI during the day while shooting it. Looks like I need to go back and check them though. Thanks guys for the advice. The whole situation just seems really weird as I'd expect it to move while shooting if it was the scope, or mounts, but that may not be the case.

cayugad

That really is strange. When you take the rifle out of the stock, is the bedding of the barrel bad? I mean when you put the barrel back in.. can it perhaps shift and move around some? I know some of the good shooters on this forum bed their rifles. If I knew how, I would bed a couple of them myself.

Muley Hunter

It's confusing when you say don't mind the big group, because it's a bad rest. Then you shoot a good group. Did you change the rest?

I'm a little suspicious of the gun or shooter, and not the scope. I nothing about you, gun, or scope. I can only go by what your telling us.

Then in another post you tell us scopes under $300 don't track.

mackesr

I am certainly no expert when it comes to BP shooting. My Traditions Pursuit shoots different when shooting from a clean barrel or fouled. I use the BH209 and if I dont swab my barrel in between shots my shot groups are very close to 1" at 100yds from a fouled barrel. If I swab the barrel in between shots my bullet tends to hit 2" to 3" to the right of my grouping. When I first start shooting at the range with my clean gun, my groups most definitely tighten up the more fouled my barrel gets. I am using the Barnes TEZ bullets also. I dont know if this has any relation to your situation or not, but thought I would mention it. What I have been doing is leaving my barrel fouled during the two week season here in Va. and scrubbing it good after the season is over.

slowr1der

I too think it's really strange. I haven't bedded the action to the stock, but I do know that with some rifles different torque on the screws holding the action to the stock can change the POI. I've never noticed that with this rifle, but thought anything was possible the first time I saw it shooting to the right, so I thought that may be why, but I wasn't sure. So after I got it centered, I didn't remove it from the stock at all when I cleaned it after getting it centered. So that I could make 100% sure this wasn't the cause and the second time I shot it which is the above time, where it seemed to shoot to the right again. The whole thing is really weird. I was hoping you might know something, as you are a genius when it comes to muzzle loaders. We are lucky to have guys like you on the forum.

Since it's shooting good groups, that's why I'm wondering if the scope could be bad and just have the zero drifting over time, or if it's got to be something else since it can shoot good groups in the same spot all day long.

The first two to the right are the big group. I fired a fouler shot and then fired the two to the right that are about 1" apart. That was enough to see it was shooting right. That's what I'm calling big. I couldn't get a great feel for the rifle the way I had the bags set up on the first shot, but I fixed them after that. I then shot the second shot which was about 1" off from the first one, but still right. After adjusting the scope I took it a little too far left, but you can see my 3 shot group that's touching to the left.

After moving it back a little, I switched targets and shot another target that was dead center, and a good group. So it's grouping well, it just seemed like the group had shifted right from where it was shooting the last time I shot it. After I moved it a few clicks to the left, it was shooting dead center again and grouping well in the center just like I wanted it to.

As for the scopes under $300 not tracking properly, that's not what I said. I said, I've never had a Leupold under $300 that tracked well. The Leupolds you can buy for under $300 are the VX-I scopes or the Riflemans. The VX-I's have friction adjustments that are horrible, and are not at all repeatable, nor do they move the scope anywhere near 1/4" per mark like they claim. I suspect anyone here that tried to adjust their Leupold VX-I much in the field would quickly figure out it doesn't track well, nor return to the the same spot when you set it back to where it was.

I've got plenty of other scopes that track very well and a few of them are under $300, they just aren't Leupolds.


So, my issue isn't that it's shooting all over the place or huge groups. It's shooting good groups, it just seems like after it sits for a while it's shooting these groups to the right of where it was when I put it away.

Muley Hunter

Time to change the scope to be sure.

As for inexpensive Leupold scopes. Never had one, but I did have a Redfield that worked good, and it's all Leupold. Good scope for the money.

bronko22000

Hold up a second. Seems to me that your first two shots are right. I didn't see where you said you adjusted the scope after these two shots or more. I think I would suspect the rifle/bedding. What kind of ML is it? I am thinking that maybe the heated up barrel is causing a different pressure point or amount of pressure changing the harmonics which would change the POI. If you had the time and/or the patience I would shoot 2 shots only from a cold clean barrel. Make any necessary scope adjustment and wait about 15 - 30 mins and a thorough cleaning. Then shoot 2 more.