Will There be more bolt actions ML's in the future?
05-31-2011, 10:36 PM
#61
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MD/PA Line
Posts: 598
Actually ALL Extreme 45s were 1-30 twist except the special Target model had a 28" 1-18 twist. Ive seen people label them as 1-28 but ive talked to Sam at Knight and he is sure all of them were 1-30 except some prototypes.
A few MKs were 1-24 and some Originals were 1-20.
BTW DL656U=DISC Elite Blue 45 26" breakUp camo.
A few MKs were 1-24 and some Originals were 1-20.
BTW DL656U=DISC Elite Blue 45 26" breakUp camo.
06-01-2011, 04:53 AM
#62
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Yes its another mismarked Elite just like the ones from Guns Unlimited that had my Original 45 NIB. Its Knights old DISC Elite SKU. It appears the new Knight basically just added a "M" to the new SKUs.
Some examples but not all
DE = Disc Extreme
DL = Disc Elite
D = DISC Original
First number is finish, second is caliber and third is length.
706 = .50 cal stainless
606 = .50 cal blued
756 = .45 cal stainless
656 = .45 cal blued
The last number is barrel length
6-26"
7=27"
ect
The last letter/s can mean several thing including style, material and pattern on the camo version. Im not 100% sure on the F. I would have to check my Original box but i only remember it having a C. Some may not apply to all models.
T = Thumbhole
C = Composite
F = Fluted
Examples:
DL756C = Disc Elite, .45 cal stainless, composite stock.
DE706CF = Disc Extreme, .50 cal stainless, composite stock, fluted.
DE756TC = Disc Extreme, .45 cal stainless, thumbhole composite stock. (which happens to be fluted since it is a .45 caliber)
This might help others looking at them on auction sights if the seller listed the SKU.
Some examples but not all
DE = Disc Extreme
DL = Disc Elite
D = DISC Original
First number is finish, second is caliber and third is length.
706 = .50 cal stainless
606 = .50 cal blued
756 = .45 cal stainless
656 = .45 cal blued
The last number is barrel length
6-26"
7=27"
ect
The last letter/s can mean several thing including style, material and pattern on the camo version. Im not 100% sure on the F. I would have to check my Original box but i only remember it having a C. Some may not apply to all models.
T = Thumbhole
C = Composite
F = Fluted
Examples:
DL756C = Disc Elite, .45 cal stainless, composite stock.
DE706CF = Disc Extreme, .50 cal stainless, composite stock, fluted.
DE756TC = Disc Extreme, .45 cal stainless, thumbhole composite stock. (which happens to be fluted since it is a .45 caliber)
This might help others looking at them on auction sights if the seller listed the SKU.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 06-01-2011 at 05:11 AM.
06-01-2011, 05:22 AM
#63
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Nice Apex carbine and as soon as they start making them in the USA i will consider buying one if they offered a 500S&W or a 45/70 or a 450 Marlin. NEF offers them in the calibers i prefer with laminate stocks and SML conversions are cheap/easy.
Looks real nice too.
Oddly CVA claims NEF does not offer a SS Handi or fluting which are both lies in the Scout comparison. Just look at their lineup.
Until we get our economy back on track, my luxury item purchases will be as close to all Made in USA as possible. Some of us still love the USA and want to support our working folks instead of a socialist government.
Looks real nice too.
Oddly CVA claims NEF does not offer a SS Handi or fluting which are both lies in the Scout comparison. Just look at their lineup.
Until we get our economy back on track, my luxury item purchases will be as close to all Made in USA as possible. Some of us still love the USA and want to support our working folks instead of a socialist government.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 06-01-2011 at 05:32 AM.
06-01-2011, 05:31 AM
#64
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Southeastern Ohio
Posts: 390
with only that small loss of FPS it's silly to be dragging around a shotgun length ML-now that I look back that's why I got rid of my last Knight...3-4 inches too long...
I called Green Mountain before ordering online to see if I could have mine in a .50 but they said .54 only. I am satisfied with it and will probably never part with it. I had a few email conversations with Gordy at Knight and "thought" it may make it into the new line up as a .50.
My friend has cut down alot of muzzy barrels to 20", laid a sheet on the ground and shot up to 110gr of BH209 and was getting complete powder burn. FPS loss was only around 80 from going 28" to 20".
I really would like to see a .45 next year from Knight. Word on the street is they will have it in the 2012 line up.
My friend has cut down alot of muzzy barrels to 20", laid a sheet on the ground and shot up to 110gr of BH209 and was getting complete powder burn. FPS loss was only around 80 from going 28" to 20".
I really would like to see a .45 next year from Knight. Word on the street is they will have it in the 2012 line up.
06-01-2011, 05:43 AM
#65
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
My 20" GMB54-120 shoots amazing groups even with a 54x45 sabot and a max load of BH209. Its too bad you missed out and they tend to hold their value extremely well. The last one i saw for sale went for roughly the original MSRP.
06-04-2011, 12:24 PM
#66
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 220
I have one final thought on the original question; will there be more bolt action ML's in the future.
I do believe that there are some advantages to a bolt action ML. Perhaps this quote from Tony Knight would best sum up my person opinion.
"It is common knowledge that break-action rifles are vastly inferior to bolt-actions in terms of trigger quality, accuracy and so forth. It is that way in center fires, rimfires and that is just as valid in muzzle loading rifles. No one with any basic understanding of firearms design would opt for a break-action platform. Ever see a break-action at Camp Perry? There’s a reason for that."
When survey the ML rifle industry I see only one company today that has the resources and the desire to advance the ML rifle technologically. That company is Thompson Center. Clearly they have done a great deal in the past (Encore and Omega are two shining examples). They have a great deal invested in the success of the break open design. I personally don' see them introducing a new bolt action model. Given the overwhelming dominance of break open ML's in the market today, I doubt that they would break any new ground here. All that said, they do have a strong interest in the bolt action center fire rifle market with the new Icon line. This is one of the most interesting new bolt rifles in many years. With Knight back in business in with a vested interest in bolt ML's, it is not too crazy to wish that we could see and Icon ML in the future!
Lets shift the focus to Knight for a minute. The old Knight company set the gold standard in pushing technology in the ML market. They also did more than anyone else to improve and enhance the ML hunting scene in all our states. They even lobbied on behalf of the sport. However with the sale of the company to new owners, the organization lost its way. From reading interviews with Tony, it is clear he did not agree with the introduction of the newer, non-bolt type ML's that were brought out under the brand. Ultimately they went out of business. As is usually the case, I suspect simple bad management is the real culprit. The good news is that they are back under new owners. It is clear that these new owners are hunters and shooters first. Their love of the sport, and the good impressions they had with Knight rifles, proved to be the motivating factor for their purchase and reopening of Knight. I truly hope that they will pick up where Mr. Knight left off and become the exemplary company who supports and helps grow the industry. They have already introduced the Mountaineer which appears to be one of the highest quality ML's available on the market. It is also nice to the new commitment to building rifles in the US.
If they are successful, we will see new bolt action rifles in the market. The foreign producers have always copied the market leaders in the past and they will do so in the future. By the way, it is not a bad business model to follow the trends. You can see this clearly in the auto industry.
In conclusion do I hope to see more bolt action muzzle loaders in the future? Absolutely! Will it be so? I don't know for sure, but it will be interesting to watch.
God bless all you guys and gals. Keep shooting; it is our right.
I do believe that there are some advantages to a bolt action ML. Perhaps this quote from Tony Knight would best sum up my person opinion.
"It is common knowledge that break-action rifles are vastly inferior to bolt-actions in terms of trigger quality, accuracy and so forth. It is that way in center fires, rimfires and that is just as valid in muzzle loading rifles. No one with any basic understanding of firearms design would opt for a break-action platform. Ever see a break-action at Camp Perry? There’s a reason for that."
When survey the ML rifle industry I see only one company today that has the resources and the desire to advance the ML rifle technologically. That company is Thompson Center. Clearly they have done a great deal in the past (Encore and Omega are two shining examples). They have a great deal invested in the success of the break open design. I personally don' see them introducing a new bolt action model. Given the overwhelming dominance of break open ML's in the market today, I doubt that they would break any new ground here. All that said, they do have a strong interest in the bolt action center fire rifle market with the new Icon line. This is one of the most interesting new bolt rifles in many years. With Knight back in business in with a vested interest in bolt ML's, it is not too crazy to wish that we could see and Icon ML in the future!
Lets shift the focus to Knight for a minute. The old Knight company set the gold standard in pushing technology in the ML market. They also did more than anyone else to improve and enhance the ML hunting scene in all our states. They even lobbied on behalf of the sport. However with the sale of the company to new owners, the organization lost its way. From reading interviews with Tony, it is clear he did not agree with the introduction of the newer, non-bolt type ML's that were brought out under the brand. Ultimately they went out of business. As is usually the case, I suspect simple bad management is the real culprit. The good news is that they are back under new owners. It is clear that these new owners are hunters and shooters first. Their love of the sport, and the good impressions they had with Knight rifles, proved to be the motivating factor for their purchase and reopening of Knight. I truly hope that they will pick up where Mr. Knight left off and become the exemplary company who supports and helps grow the industry. They have already introduced the Mountaineer which appears to be one of the highest quality ML's available on the market. It is also nice to the new commitment to building rifles in the US.
If they are successful, we will see new bolt action rifles in the market. The foreign producers have always copied the market leaders in the past and they will do so in the future. By the way, it is not a bad business model to follow the trends. You can see this clearly in the auto industry.
In conclusion do I hope to see more bolt action muzzle loaders in the future? Absolutely! Will it be so? I don't know for sure, but it will be interesting to watch.
God bless all you guys and gals. Keep shooting; it is our right.
