ronlaughlin

Even mine?!? Mine are stainless!










I am thinking you are responding to my post about the real need for vent liners, but i am not sure. My real point was that a breech plug can be 100% successful igniting BH without having a ventliner. Sometimes, i get the impression that people think, one's breechplug needs a ventliner to successfully ignite BH, and that is simply not so. Be that as it may, some of my breech plugs have ventliners, and some don't. Myself, i have zero issues igniting BH, whether the plug i am using has a ventliner or not.

I don't feel near as strongly about ventliners as you do, one way or another. They work, and that is good, but they aren't necessary for all plugs. It is nice to install a ventliner in a breech plug when it's flash hole grows large enough to be disconcerting. It is also nice to be able to modify a breech plug so it will ignite BH, and use a ventliner to replace the ruined flash hole.

sabotloader

ronlaughlin

Ron, I have great respect for the projects that you are doing, I just wish I had the skill and the machines to do it myself...

But, No yours are not even close to the material, engineering, or treating that the Lehigh has... and I say that respectfully. Do yours work - YES!... do they do the things or will they last as long as the Lehigh I would bet not.

I also agree that the vent liner is not need to shoot BH succesfully for a given period of time. I do say that with the vent kiner including you SS vent liner you will be more successful for a longer period of time.

My own personal opinion I would much perfer to have a breech plug with the vent liner than without... is it necessary NO... Is it more reliable over a wider range of possibilities - I say it is.

I would further say that the vent liner allows marginal breech plugs designs to work more effeciently than they did when they were in their original state. And I offer the Triumph plug as an example, according the Western the length (geometry) of that plug rules it out as an ideal BH breech plug, but if you modifiy the flash cannel and add the ventliner - it suddenly becomes a much better BP for BH, not that it is necessary for any other powder.

One other thing I think about... if I were pulling down on a nice bull elk in the woods with rotten weather all around me the gun draping with snow all over it, I would feel a whole lot better about squeezing the trigger with a vent liner in the plug than one without.

Just stuff that I have found over a long period of time...

ronlaughlin

Golly, and i tried as hard as i could......................the liner in my V2 plug has seen around 200 shots; maybe more, and the flash hole is still 0.029", which is what it was, when born......................wonder what it will be next year about this time.

sabotloader

I am sure it will probably be there in another 299 shots very easily... but the point you are missing and do not grasp is that the design of the inverse cone really aids in the survival and the lasting ability of the liner and the breech plug.

The vortex of the gas up against the dome is defected away from the center of the vent liner and aids in reduction of the amount of gas that runs back up the breech plug. That little bit of deflection and time allows the sabot and/or projectile to clear the barrel and suck some of the left over debris out the barrel with it.

It is not all about just going boom. If you were to look into the dynamics of the gas expansion, escape, and the timing of the exit of the bullet from the bore you would understand more from where I am trying to explain.

Another way to test it, and I have no idea how you might do it.... put a pressure sensor in the flash channel , record the pressure with a regular BP, then with a flat liner, and finally with the domed liner. you would see less pressure with the domed liner... add that a flash channel that is longer, or that can hold more volumne and the pressure would be reduced again... which leads to less debris and fouling in the breech plug.

It did take you a while to see the advantage of the larger flash channel also but I think you now agree that opening the channel is an asset.

I think we have somewhat the same disagreement on the length of the BP, even when shooting BH. The powder pocket is not needed to ignite BH and it certainly is not a detrement but in my eperiance I have better luck and reliabilty going the other direction. Most of my Knights are equipped with what I call a Gen III plug, they do not fit into Western design plan at all or even yours, but they function amazingly well in all conditions.

Since modifiying the Triumph plug with a vent liner on the nose and 0.159 flash channel, it also has function with zero problems, but in all honesty I have tested it extensively... Then I am sure that Lee (lemoyne) modified his the same way and I know he has tested his a lot...

So it continues a difference in thoughts (i can not spell the big word) which is great - that what makes the world go around.

Grouse45

Stainless is way to soft. Actually not even safe to use. Do you no what kind of Stainless it is?

The Lehigh vent-liners are steel. They are hardened to Rockwell C60. They are also Gas Nitrided to 2100 degreas farenheit.

The hardening procedure Lehigh is using is also being done on i believe rocket launchers. This process is very expensive and highly effective on flame cutting.

For $20.00 bucks delivered gets you four vent-liners. Why settle for anything else.

flounder33

Not Safe???? I hope they are safe. I've been shooting conicals using them in my White.

ronlaughlin

Them screw is 18-8 stainless, and they are far harder than the standard breech plug steel.

I started making these vent liner, because Lehigh was/is out of stock. They also raised the price to $22.

sabotloader

Art have you installed a vent liner in a White plug? Never even thought about in mine... might have to look at that...

flounder33

They have been working great for me. Ron has done two of them for me, I never felt a bit unsafe using them. What do you think?
Here is the post from MM

I bought a used White a couple months ago and the breech plugs flash hole was at least twice as big as what they are when new. The White breech plugs are one piece with the #11 nipple. I think that nipple would last my lifetime but once that flashhole gets too big you get a ton more blowback and I think the accuracy suffers.I had bought some new breech plugs but I had an idea that a ventliner ought to work in there. I sent it out to Ron Laughlin and he did an excellent job drilling it and tapping it for a ventliner.
I finally took the time to try it out today. I shot 13 shots using Remington #11 caps and Triple 7 fffg. Ignition was flawless. I do think the blowback was less than I was getting with a new breechplug. It will be interesting to see how many shots I get out of a ventliner before the hole errodes too much but it is cheaper and easier buying ventliners than new breechplugs.
I can't think of a downside to making this conversion.
Art
This is what the breech plug looks like with the ventliner installed

Ron could tell you much better than I what he did to get the plug ready to accept the ventliner. I think it ammounts to machining the plug so the head of the ventliner will seat tightly and drilling and tapping a hole to accept the threads of the ventliner, I think they are 10-32 but I'm not positive.
Here is the plug before installing the ventliner

Here is kind of a blurry picture of the ventliner
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Hope this helps
Art

flounder33

That was the first one and that ventliner is from PR. Since then I have used one of Ron's SS ventliners.