Knight Rifles does it first.
04-04-2011, 06:30 PM
#41
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
The only thing one may need to do that they normally wouldn't with the T/C speed breech, is use a mag primer in extreme cold. other than that just regular cleaning of the BP, this is all that is necessary for proper ignition in all weather conditions.I will also say while vent liners and such are nice features, for the vast majority of people using M/L rifles there not necessary and i don't think you will see the various M/L companys rushing to ad this feature.especially since they make additional revenue from selling new ones.again i commend Knight for what there doing with the new Bp's and i hope they continue on this positive path, especially since IMHO they have made some serious mistakes since there reopening.if i were in the market for a high end rifle it would be the Knight mountaineer, not a Encore or high end CVA.Ray
04-04-2011, 06:37 PM
#42
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
GM,
I understand, but the Savage barrel is very strong to withstand smokeless pressures. BH 209 may be a smokeless powder in some ways, but it's weak compared to real smokeless. 40 gr of smokeless is a good load. That's a pop gun with BH 209.
Do you have any idea what loads they used for testing in the Savage? I know Toby used 120 gr in the Knight during testing. I don't think anybody needs to use any more than that, but i'm curious what the max would be. Even though Western says that should be the limit.
Some nuts use up to 200gr of BP with 600 gr conicals in Africa.
I understand, but the Savage barrel is very strong to withstand smokeless pressures. BH 209 may be a smokeless powder in some ways, but it's weak compared to real smokeless. 40 gr of smokeless is a good load. That's a pop gun with BH 209.
Do you have any idea what loads they used for testing in the Savage? I know Toby used 120 gr in the Knight during testing. I don't think anybody needs to use any more than that, but i'm curious what the max would be. Even though Western says that should be the limit.
Some nuts use up to 200gr of BP with 600 gr conicals in Africa.
04-04-2011, 06:44 PM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
No but i do know guys that have shot 150gr of BH209 with and without sabots using 250gr bullets. Pressures were right up there with many smokeless loads.
The main reason is a test barrel has pressure sensors installed. Your test barrel isnt any good if it may fail. BTW i have several smokeless loads that are neck in neck with BH209 in pressure but you need to use a slower burning powder and more of it...like 60-70grs with a 300gr bullet. Velocity though is much higher even though the pressure isnt that much different.
Go look at the smokeless traces on Dougs board because i wont post them here.
The main reason is a test barrel has pressure sensors installed. Your test barrel isnt any good if it may fail. BTW i have several smokeless loads that are neck in neck with BH209 in pressure but you need to use a slower burning powder and more of it...like 60-70grs with a 300gr bullet. Velocity though is much higher even though the pressure isnt that much different.
Go look at the smokeless traces on Dougs board because i wont post them here.
04-04-2011, 06:52 PM
#45
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
I am not sure of that... BH produces less pressure at any given time than does T7, so the recoil would be spread out over a longer period time.... One of the beauties of a progressive burning powder.
Knights can shoot 150 grains of T7 with a bullet of 295 grains or less and a few shoot that combination - I do not - do not see the need for the terrain that I hunt.
Knights can shoot 150 grains of T7 with a bullet of 295 grains or less and a few shoot that combination - I do not - do not see the need for the terrain that I hunt.
04-04-2011, 06:54 PM
#46
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
builder459
Removable vent liners in a production ML are under a patent protection. Henry Ball and his son own the patent. They "rent" it to Savage. That is why Knight can not sell one with the same REMOVABLE vent liner. Lehigh could because they only sold a aftermarket plug until he got on with Knight. Even SMI had to change the design and even the name of their "liner".
Removable vent liners in a production ML are under a patent protection. Henry Ball and his son own the patent. They "rent" it to Savage. That is why Knight can not sell one with the same REMOVABLE vent liner. Lehigh could because they only sold a aftermarket plug until he got on with Knight. Even SMI had to change the design and even the name of their "liner".
04-04-2011, 06:58 PM
#47
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
sabotloader
Actually is does kick more because of total ejecta weight. The powder is part of the total weight. Look up a recoil calculator, they include the weight of the powder too.
Ive never changed just the powder weights to compare them but it is part of the equation. The guy on Dougs that shot it also used the 325gr FTX at 2300fps+ sabotless in a 45cal. That is gunna kick like a mule no matter what. My load uses it in a sabot with about 65gr of smokeless and the psi is about the same at 2250fps. Recoil is very noticeable.
Actually is does kick more because of total ejecta weight. The powder is part of the total weight. Look up a recoil calculator, they include the weight of the powder too.
Ive never changed just the powder weights to compare them but it is part of the equation. The guy on Dougs that shot it also used the 325gr FTX at 2300fps+ sabotless in a 45cal. That is gunna kick like a mule no matter what. My load uses it in a sabot with about 65gr of smokeless and the psi is about the same at 2250fps. Recoil is very noticeable.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 04-04-2011 at 07:03 PM.
04-04-2011, 07:05 PM
#48
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
I am not sure of that... BH produces less pressure at any given time than does T7, so the recoil would be spread out over a longer period time.... One of the beauties of a progressive burning powder.
Knights can shoot 150 grains of T7 with a bullet of 295 grains or less and a few shoot that combination - I do not - do not see the need for the terrain that I hunt.
Knights can shoot 150 grains of T7 with a bullet of 295 grains or less and a few shoot that combination - I do not - do not see the need for the terrain that I hunt.
I'm old.
04-04-2011, 07:13 PM
#50
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
