That is one of the most profound statements I think I have ever read on this forum!! And absolutley correct. If you do not have any ties to Traditional Hunting. And you want to chase the performance. As many have said they like to do. Then why not take the above advice and quit worrying about all the odds and ends of trying to get a tad more performance. Just do as stated above. Tom.

I did but i still like my Knights.

Smokeless is the ORIGINAL sub for black powder and works great in certified guns. Being able to use 40-44gr of powder and exceed 120gr of BH209 performance is too sweet. ;)

Very simple answer.

It's called muzzleloader season. No scopes, pellets, smokeless, or sabots here.

I use the .54 Hawken for deer, and the Omega for elk.

It's not always possible to get a close shot with the Hawken to have it effective on an elk. I really need the meat every year from an elk. It's much more humane to kill the elk with an inline. It's more accurate past 75yds and has much more FPE. I'm more comfortable shooting elk with it. Better for me and the elk.

So, i'll take every advantage I can for ML elk hunting, and make no apology for it.

No smokeless here neither.

I don't recall anyone asking you for an apology.

But making the statement that you are limited to 75 yards on elk with BP is a bunch of bunk also.

The last bull elk I shot was a pretty good sized 5X5. I shot him at 135 yards with 3F BP, open sights, and a heavy duty conical that I cast myself. That is about as primitive as you can get. And if that bull would have been at 150 yards he would also have been an easy shot. And he definitely would have went down with black powder.

So I do not buy your theory that you can't get it done with Black Powder. Sorry, but I just don't believe it. And I am not sure what T7 or some other "super powder" would give with a heavy conical that you can't get from BP??

And the bull I shot in the above statement was in New Mexico. I realize CO has some quircky BP laws. I remember their old law about the length of a conical. I have heard they dropped that quircky rule. But if not then it would still be easy enough to cast the proper length conical. And to shoot that conical with BP and kill any bull walking in CO at 150 yards. Or even farther if you know your weapon and how to shoot it. And I see no problem doing it with open sights.

I also am not sure what you mean by "more accurate" past 75 yards. My heavy conicals will shoot extremely accurate past 75 yards(with BP). I would put them up against anything anyone else can come up with when using the so called "better powders". I actually think BP is more accurate than some of those powders. At least T7-that is the one I have the most experience with. Tom.

You seemed to have missed the part where I said I only shoot BP and a PRB out of my Hawken.

I'll stand by my statements.

CO law does not limit you to that Hawken and a PRB?? So I don't understand why you would limit yourself. I shot a heavy conical from an MK-85. And that is not considered a traditional gun by any means. But yet that rifle is legal to hunt with in CO?? So yes I would agree on one thing, you have got me a bit confused?? Why would you limit yourself to PRB's?? The law does not require that?? Oh well. Let's move on. Tom.

Go up to a 54cal shooting the .530 round ball, easily take elk at 150 yards. Or at least i do

It's a side of me that may not be understandable. I go to shoots at a club that limits me to pre 1840. A PRB, BP, primitive sights etc. I find it fun to hunt that way too. Clothing and all. I'm still hoping for a primitive hunting season in Colorado.

I also fly fish the same way. Bamboo rod, silk line, creel, and I tie my own flies with nothing but natural materials.

I was born 150 years too late, and to be honest. It rubs me the wrong way to even use an inline ML. Don't be surprised to see me go back to just hunting with the Hawken.

I think it is understandable. I seem to find myself going back to traditional shooting a good bit myself. I just ordered a new 50 caliber FL rifle from TVM. So yes I do understand what you are talking about.

I would like to see some pictures of your fly rod. I have an old model that my uncle left me. It is a Winchester brand split bamboo fly rod. I am not sure when it was made. But it is old. I consider that rod the "Holy Grail". But I do not think I would ever take it fishing. My uncle was the VP of Bear Archery, and the rod was used more than once by Fred Bear. I consider it a real family heirloom. Regardless of what it is worth. So yes I fully understand what you mean. And you have my respect for staying traditional!! Good Shooting. Tom.