POI with Powder vs Pellets
#21
Hometheaterman-The next issue I'm having is, when I set the measure to 100 grains, then I dump it out onto my RCBS scale, it says it's only 60 some grains. When I set the measure to 125 grains which is it's max the scale says it's 88 grains. So should I just go by what the measure says? Is it normal for them to be this far off? Or
The T/C view powder measure is a measure of volume not weight whereas the RCBS measures the weight of the powder they are not the same for example 100 gr of 777 by volume when weighed will read about 70gr. Most loads are given in volume.........
The T/C view powder measure is a measure of volume not weight whereas the RCBS measures the weight of the powder they are not the same for example 100 gr of 777 by volume when weighed will read about 70gr. Most loads are given in volume.........
(BP)
#22
Typical Buck
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 753
Likes: 0
From: southwestern va
i was just like you, always used pellets and didnt want to mess with loose powder, but i switched to bh209 this year and i swear its the best move i ever made ml-wise. You can play with different loads (i found 110 grains work best for me). All you need is a carry tube of it for the range, one measurer and then some of those little plastic tubes where you can preload your bullet powder and it will even hold your percussion cap. I thought it would be a big deal to switch but honestly its nothing to it, go for it.
#23
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
It's a beam type scale, and it's max isn't 125grs. What I meant when I said that is the max you can measure by volume in the T/C U View Powder Measure is 125 grains as it's the max it will hold. The scale will go up to 511 grains I think, but don't quote me on that. It's something similar though.
#24
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
Hometheaterman-The next issue I'm having is, when I set the measure to 100 grains, then I dump it out onto my RCBS scale, it says it's only 60 some grains. When I set the measure to 125 grains which is it's max the scale says it's 88 grains. So should I just go by what the measure says? Is it normal for them to be this far off? Or
The T/C view powder measure is a measure of volume not weight whereas the RCBS measures the weight of the powder they are not the same for example 100 gr of 777 by volume when weighed will read about 70gr. Most loads are given in volume.........
The T/C view powder measure is a measure of volume not weight whereas the RCBS measures the weight of the powder they are not the same for example 100 gr of 777 by volume when weighed will read about 70gr. Most loads are given in volume.........
#25
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,918
Likes: 1
From: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Hometheaterman, you need a basic understanding of the volume vs. weight issue in muzzle loading, and how we got to where we are today.
Originally, with real black powder, volume and weight were the same and were usually based on FF grade black powder. So, if one wanted to make a 100 grain powder measure he would weigh out a 100 grain weight charge of FF black powder and build the measure to hold that amount. Now he has a 100 grain powder measure (and volume and weight are equal).
Then along comes the first black powder substitute - Pyrodex. It was designed so that the amount of Pyrodex that fit in that 100 grain powder measure provided a charge with energy that approximated 100 grains of black powder. However, because Pyrodex is less dense than real black powder, that 100 grain "volume" charge actually weighed something less, closer to 80 grains. Then along came other substitutes, all of varying densities. A 100 grain volume charges of any one of them will weigh something less than 100 grains. For example, Triple 7 was said to have gotten that name because 77.7 grain weight of it would fill a 100 grain volume measure.
So in muzzle loading, unless a person specifically states he is shooting "X weight" of powder, it is correct to assume whatever charge cited is a volume charge (i.e. the amount of powder it took to fill a volume measure to the stated charge level).
Now what could be clearer than that?
(Yeah, I know. I even got confused trying to write this.)
Originally, with real black powder, volume and weight were the same and were usually based on FF grade black powder. So, if one wanted to make a 100 grain powder measure he would weigh out a 100 grain weight charge of FF black powder and build the measure to hold that amount. Now he has a 100 grain powder measure (and volume and weight are equal).
Then along comes the first black powder substitute - Pyrodex. It was designed so that the amount of Pyrodex that fit in that 100 grain powder measure provided a charge with energy that approximated 100 grains of black powder. However, because Pyrodex is less dense than real black powder, that 100 grain "volume" charge actually weighed something less, closer to 80 grains. Then along came other substitutes, all of varying densities. A 100 grain volume charges of any one of them will weigh something less than 100 grains. For example, Triple 7 was said to have gotten that name because 77.7 grain weight of it would fill a 100 grain volume measure.
So in muzzle loading, unless a person specifically states he is shooting "X weight" of powder, it is correct to assume whatever charge cited is a volume charge (i.e. the amount of powder it took to fill a volume measure to the stated charge level).
Now what could be clearer than that?
(Yeah, I know. I even got confused trying to write this.)
Last edited by Semisane; 01-16-2011 at 06:35 PM.
#26
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
Hometheaterman, you need a basic understanding of the volume vs. weight issue in muzzle loading, and how we got to where we are today.
Originally, with real black powder, volume and weight were the same and were usually based on FF grade black powder. So, if one wanted to make a 100 grain powder measure he would weigh out a 100 grain weight charge of FF black powder and build the measure to hold that amount. Now he has a 100 grain powder measure (and volume and weight are equal).
Then along comes the first black powder substitute - Pyrodex. It was designed so that the amount of Pyrodex that fit in that 100 grain powder measure provided a charge with energy that approximated 100 grains of black powder. However, because Pyrodex is less dense than real black powder, that 100 grain "volume" charge actually weighed something less, closer to 80 grains. Then along came other substitutes, all of varying densities. A 100 grain volume charges of any one of them will weigh something less than 100 grains. For example, Triple 7 was said to have gotten that name because 77.7 grain weight of it would fill a 100 grain volume measure.
So in muzzle loading, unless a person specifically states he is shooting "X weight" of powder, it is correct to assume whatever charge cited is a volume charge (i.e. the amount of powder it took to fill a volume measure to the stated charge level).
Not what could be clearer than that?
(Yeah, I know. I even got confused trying to write this.)
Originally, with real black powder, volume and weight were the same and were usually based on FF grade black powder. So, if one wanted to make a 100 grain powder measure he would weigh out a 100 grain weight charge of FF black powder and build the measure to hold that amount. Now he has a 100 grain powder measure (and volume and weight are equal).
Then along comes the first black powder substitute - Pyrodex. It was designed so that the amount of Pyrodex that fit in that 100 grain powder measure provided a charge with energy that approximated 100 grains of black powder. However, because Pyrodex is less dense than real black powder, that 100 grain "volume" charge actually weighed something less, closer to 80 grains. Then along came other substitutes, all of varying densities. A 100 grain volume charges of any one of them will weigh something less than 100 grains. For example, Triple 7 was said to have gotten that name because 77.7 grain weight of it would fill a 100 grain volume measure.
So in muzzle loading, unless a person specifically states he is shooting "X weight" of powder, it is correct to assume whatever charge cited is a volume charge (i.e. the amount of powder it took to fill a volume measure to the stated charge level).
Not what could be clearer than that?
(Yeah, I know. I even got confused trying to write this.)
#27
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 0
So I got to go out and shoot some powder today. The good news it he POI seems to be about the same. The bad news is for some reason my scope was off. I shot the powder first and it was about 3" to the right. I thought it must shoot different, but then shot my old load of pellets and it hit the same spot. Made a nice group there. I hope this scope isn't going bad on me. It's a $30 Tasco, but I've had it for years and it's been a great scope. It's the cheapest scope I've got, but it's one of my favorites, and I've had a lot of good times with it. I've actually killed my two biggest deer with this gun with this scope. I'm not so quick to blame it though as it's several other factors that could have messed it up. When I sighted it in, I just did a few shots and 2 hit about 1.5" right and 2 hit in the bullseye. I left it alone as I didn't have time to shoot much more. Then during hunting season I shot a deer with it and hit it exactly where I wanted. Actually shot it between the eyes as I couldn't get a good shot at it. After that, my gun did get bumped around a little in a mule when hauling the deer out, but nothing that should have knocked the scope off. Then I took the stock off when cleaning it. I'm aware this can sometimes change the POI on rifles if the screws aren't torqued exactly the same. So I guess this could have had something to do with it. Other than that, I'm not sure what it was.
I ended up having a little trouble getting it sighted in. For some reason I was having a lot of trouble shooting this though. I've gotten used to the light trigger on my other guns that I mostly shoot. I kept squeezing the trigger on this thing between breathes and it wouldn't go off. So I'd have to take a few more breathes and squeeze it again and harder. I had several times where I went to pull the trigger and it didn't go off because I didn't squeeze hard enough. I used to not be bothered by this, but once I got used to a light trigger, I have a really hard time with these heavy triggers. The other issue I was having is I was pulling some, mostly due to trying to pull the trigger, and some just because I was flinching for some reason today.
I think I may have to go shoot it more another day to get it sighted in. Then I will see if it holds zero until hunting season. I shot one or two good groups with this gun today though. Just not exactly where I wanted. Then I'd adjust the scope, then I'd pull a few shots, so I'd adjust it more, and then see I'd been pulling. It just was a rough day.
I'm glad to see the powder shot the same poi as the pellets though as I can now use both. I didn't think the powder was hard to pour down the barrel, but it was hard to get out of the jug into the powder measure, but I wouldn't do that in the field anyway.
I ended up having a little trouble getting it sighted in. For some reason I was having a lot of trouble shooting this though. I've gotten used to the light trigger on my other guns that I mostly shoot. I kept squeezing the trigger on this thing between breathes and it wouldn't go off. So I'd have to take a few more breathes and squeeze it again and harder. I had several times where I went to pull the trigger and it didn't go off because I didn't squeeze hard enough. I used to not be bothered by this, but once I got used to a light trigger, I have a really hard time with these heavy triggers. The other issue I was having is I was pulling some, mostly due to trying to pull the trigger, and some just because I was flinching for some reason today.
I think I may have to go shoot it more another day to get it sighted in. Then I will see if it holds zero until hunting season. I shot one or two good groups with this gun today though. Just not exactly where I wanted. Then I'd adjust the scope, then I'd pull a few shots, so I'd adjust it more, and then see I'd been pulling. It just was a rough day.
I'm glad to see the powder shot the same poi as the pellets though as I can now use both. I didn't think the powder was hard to pour down the barrel, but it was hard to get out of the jug into the powder measure, but I wouldn't do that in the field anyway.



