Doug100g

Barnes are definitely a good bullets, but there are and have been times that the Barnes do not expand at closer ranges, especially when being pushed hard.

The Lehigh is a premium bullet carring about the same price tag as the Barnes but designed with a completely different theory of operation. Last week I shot a doe @ 197 yards with a 40cal 200 grain Lehigh. It sounds pretty much like your shot - double lung. I found that my shot was a little high... it clipped the back of both front legs, broke 2 ribs on this side and 2 ribs on the exit - pass through. The lungs were turned to just jello and the heart was pierced with a one of the bullet petals.

No lack of blood here and the deer did not go far at all.



The Speer Gold Dot - now called Deep Curl is an excellent production bullet - IMO the best...

Here are some picture of some that I treid to destroy in a torture test...

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...32%20%44%49%41
Doug. Gold Dot and Deep Curl are the same bullet just a name change for advertising. They are still listed under the Gold Dot name here; the price will likely go up when the change catches up they run about 17 dollars for 50 so far.

@ sabotloader: Wow, now that is some great info. So if Barnes may fail to open at close range then it is possible that was the case with the XTP. Looks like the Lehigh is a great bullet based on those pics.

I will have to get some of these and give them a try.


@ Lee: Thanks for the link and info



D

Doug100g

Remember on the barnes.... it a big MAY most often you would not have a problem.

On the XTP's you probably had the opposite happen - they separated.... the lead came out of the copper and a portion of the lead exited out the other side...

You can see the separation in these pictures but remember I was torture testing them. Also this is not the rule - but it does happen...



Lehighs

Well, Sabotloader.

I fired the Barnes blue sabots today and all I can say is wow!

Bullets were touching at 75 yards. And the cool part is that I was free standing with shooting sticks.

I hope they open up on my next deer...lol

We are getting dumped on by snow here in the snow belt of Ohio. So long range shots will be needed in two weeks when the next two day gun season opens up.

Can you believe that Ohio always puts Muzzys last? This year it is January 8th, 9th, 10, and 11th. Last year we had two feet of snow during Muzzy. Man, I feel like BreachPlug..lol


Anyways, I will defiantly check out those Lehighs. Boy, do they look sweet.


D

Not a ML story but I have been reading alot about the pass thrus and blood and deer running with dbl lung shots and such. I don't think there is always a clear cut answer. I shot a basket 8 this year in Ohio at 25yrds and it was a dbl lung pass thru with a muzzy. It jumped went 20yrds stopped for maybe 5-10 seconds and feel over stiff legged like a spine shot from a firearm with no blood between the spot of impact and final resting place. So sometimes I believe the shot can be good, the bullet good, and they run a long way with or without a blood trail. A not so good shot with a supposedly bad bullet and they drop in their tracks. Go figure

In my Opinion the XTP did it's job, the Deer only went what about 50-60yds? You found the tracks and followed it another 40yds and it was piled up. That does'nt seem too out of the ordinary for a Deer to run befor it expires after being double lung shot. Deer are Amazing, and there adrenilin will keep em going after there dead on there feet, I've seem em go 100yds on a double lung shot with there lungs mush.
If you buy the XTP's in the 30 pack from TC yea there expensive, if you buy a pack of 100 XTP Bullets there around $21, nit bad, add the Sabots to the price and your shooting a very affordable bullet sabot combo.
Again and Im just trying to help. You cant always expect a Deer to drop on the spot, they will run as far as they can after the shot no matter what bulet you use, no 2 Deer shot in the same place with the same bullet will do the same thing, one may drop in there tracks and the other may run for 100yds, ya never know.
After the shot is just as Important as befor the shot, thats's where your Tracking Skills come in. If you could'nt have found your Deer after it only ran that short of a distance with minimal blood than you need to develpoe better Tracking Skills. What does everyone want a 2 foot wide blood trail to follow.
The XTP did it's job, the Deer died, then it was up to you to find your kill. I've shot XTP's with 150gr's down to 70gr's and none ever let me down. Sure they were'nt all foot wide blood trails but you cant expect that all the time.
I think I read somewhere where a Heart Shot Deer's Heart Continues to Beat for 30 Seconds and even though it's Dead it can run a long way. No 2 Deer will react the same to the same shot, some fold and some run, you just cant blame it on the Bullet no matter wich one's you use. Blame it on the Deer's Instinct to get the Hell Out of there and try and escape danger.
I once found a Great Buck that was hit by a Car or Truck on the Thruway. I saw the blood in the snow and followed the tracks untill I jumped the Buck. I got help and 4 of us tried to catch up to him and finish him off. He ran for 4 miles while we jumped him on many occasions. We just could'nt get close enough, he jumped the Thruway Fence like he was a Olympic Pole Vaulter. When another Hunter up ahead of us finally shot him after 5 Hours of tracking and trying to get him we finally saw the Buck, and a Great One He Was. a 175 Class Buck with Broken Ribs and 2 Rear Broken Legs with Bones sticking out and no telling what else internal injuries he had. But he still managed to never let us get close enough to him to finish him off.
Never Underestimate a Deer's Will To Live, they are one Tough SOB! And that's just one story about them that I saw, and witnessed more.
Im Glad you got your Buck and Congradulations to you! That's what matter's most.
(BP)

@ Phat head: You know...I am starting to think your right on this.


@ Breachplug: I see what your saying. I guess I need to rephrase what happened.

When having shot at this deer at almost 120 yards with using a scope on 4 power and wind to my backside, the shot was obscured by the muzzy smoke. And since I did not have my gun on a rest (shot off my knee from stand) I was not entirely sure I hit the deer where I put the cross-hairs.

I'm a pretty good shot and practice year round, but my heart rate always goes up at trigger time.

That being said, my only clue to the deer being pierced was that while he was exiting the field his head was very low. Equal to the tarsals. And we know as hunters, that deer do not run from danger with their head low.

I thought my advantage on the deeply wet and mushy soy field would be to see some blood from a pass-through, showing up on the 1/2 inch of snow that covered the black ground. To my chagrin, no blood.

I had to keep sharply focused out to 120 yards to find the only track amongst 2000 tracks that exited purposely in the retreat direction.

I also had the challenge of following him through one of many pig pen troughs leading to the woods. This is an area with a lot of deer.

The fact that the hollow point created no blood had me scratching my head. I am not one to blame equipment. The XTP is sound and has an excellent track record. Therefore, I began to doubt myself, that maybe I had not struck my intended pray do to shooter error.

But one thing lingered in my mind. That low head getaway.

A new challenge faced me when I finally found the dominant track. Freezing wet snow (like rain) began to descend over all the tracks. With no blood, and with the trail being covered quickly by snow I became as the deer and pretended to run like him.

I knew I had less than a half-in-hour to find this deer before having to come out with a search party the next morning to grid walk it. Imagine trying to find a deer in the woods when even it may be covered by 6 inches of snow? That's what came that night.

It was only after being 50 yards on to the trail that I could see hairspray mist (blood red in the snow).

Pin head blood. The kind that tells you to get back to the shooting range before hunting again. The kind of blood that says, you will be tracking all day tomorrow with friends. The kind that say's you might only have kissed him and he will live another day while you replay the shot 1000 times over in your mind.

Thankfully he crashed just outside a thicket. You could see where he desperately tried to get to solid cover. His body shinned on the moonlit snow.

However, to my amazement, I looked at the entrance and exit wound. It was picture perfect shot. Dead center of the lungs. But no blood at all from the exit wound. The exit hole is the same size diameter of the XTP before it was fired.

Thus, where my story ends, and then begins again. Was it the bullet? Was it Blackhorn 209? Was it a freak occurrence?

Maybe it was the latter. Them deer are Just TOUGH!

D

Anytime you see as you called it (Hair Spray Blood) is from a Lung Shot Deer) a Deer shot through the Lungs Always (Usually) Sprays or sprays a Fine Mist of Blood. You have to know the differences from one hit to another as in Blood Color, Dark, Bright Red, ect, another long subject.
If the XTP hit NO Bone and passed between the Ribs then it gave the Bullet no time to expand upon Impact with the Bone, thus the small exit hole.
I have been there where the Rain began after the Shot or where the Snow was falling to cover the tracks or a Deer just shot. You Must Alwyas LOOK and WATCH and LISTEN as the Deer runs off after the shot, pinpoint a exact Marker, Location that you last saw the Deer Run. Sure shooting a MLer you wont always see the Deer run off from the smoke, but you have to listen.
No it was'nt the Powder's fault or the Bullets, it was just what happened, again no 2 shots are ever the same. You did what you had to do and you found your Buck.
But NEVER and I mean NEVER ASSUME that just because after a shot that when you find no Hair or Blood that it means you MISSED. Track and Look and Look untill your 1 Billion Percent satisfied that you truely did miss. Because there's just and it happens all the time that your Deer has been hit perfect and died. At the shot is just the beginning, after the shot is where you have to end the story.
(BP)

I guess what also made me curious as to the blood color was that it was more dark than expected. Lung blood id usually bright.

The mist looked like liver blood. But, it was awful cold and muddy. That may have given it a darker appearance SL.


D