So I really wanted move away from my shockwaves and 777 pellets. I got ahold of some barnes tmz's and Black Horn 209, and all I can say is they shoot good when I can get them down the barrel to the z5 tc. The shockwaves went down tough, but the tmz are just ridiculous. I think I've got a swelled up nut!!

So out comes the vernier caliper. (not for the nut)

With the bullet in the sabot the 250 gr. Shockwaves came in at .507.

The shockwave with a harvester crushed rib was .504.

The Tmz's 250 gr. came in at .506

Platinum powerbelts 290. (?) were .509 at the skirt and .498 at the bullet.

Harvester scorpions pt gold 260 gr. were .504 (I haven't had a chance to shoot these yet but am excited). These should load well.

And the Tmz with the black crushed rib was .502. I havent' had a chance to shoot this combo either. I am skeptical how the flat base sabot will do with the boat tail tmz. Has anyone tried this??

After the season I will try the Barnes TMEZ which is listed at .502 I believe. I really like the idea of the barnes stuff.

How could the tmz be that much harder to load when I was in reality 1/1000th smaller than the shockwave? Does it have to do with the material of the sabot or is it more to do with the short shockwave vs the longer tmz? I will mention that I was not using the aligner from barnes. I'm stumped.

All of this just amazes me that there can be such deviance in something like bullets or firearms, but it is kinda fun finding the right combo.

On the other hand i'm very impressed with the bh209. I even got consistent results from 777 primers.

bh 209 seems to require a snug fit to ignite properly. I found that some traditions spitzers in an easy load sabot in my Knight lost alot of pressure and velocity and hit low on the target. Have fun.

Don't give up on the Barnes. My Triumph loves the 250gr TEZ (blue sabot).

Cabage,

It is the Sabot not the Bullet. That yellow sabot that comes with the TMZ has a very thick diameter. The TMZ as you mentioned is a boat tail and you will not see good results using a sabot that is made for a flat base round. You could check with both Harvester and MMP to see if the make another sabot for boat tails or you can do what I did and switch to the Spitfire TEZ Flat base, basically same bullet with a flat base. Then you can experiment with a bunch of different sabots to get the right fit. The Blue sabot that comes with the TEZ was actually too loose of a fit in my Accura so it may work fine for you.

I get good results with the Harvester Scorpion 260 gr in the crushed rib sabot. about 1-1.5" at 100 yards. Shot a buck at 140 yards on Friday with it, the and wound channel was massive, as was the (short) blood trail. I'm sold.

Ok so I'm not going to waste time with the tmz and the black crushed rib, Thank you Fusion. Harvester does make a yellow sabot for the boat tail witch I will try. I will also find a package of tez's so I can play around with some different sabots. Who even knows, they might load and shoot great, as they are .502 I believe. .502 is definitely smaller that the shockwaves(.507) which up until now I've put up with.

Hopefully the weather clears up a bit tomorrow so I can shoot before rifle season opens on saturday here in Wisconsin, otherwise I'll have to use the centerfire. Looks like my only hope for the weekend is for the scorpion pt golds fly well. Either way this is fun finding the right load, almost like a game! It gives me a sense of pride and accomplishment to have done more than just buy a box of shells and start sending them downrange.

Well as luck would have it my service partner called me just before dark and wanted to shoot a bit before dark. I was in the area and stopped in with enough time to touch off two shots before dark.
90gr bh209 and a 260gr harvester scorpion pt gold off the sticks, 50yards. These things really do load easy, like so easy that I didn't even have to put the t-handle on the ramrod!! The first shot sounded funny and felt soft, needless to say I missed the paper plate sized target I was fixed on. I am assuming that I didn't seat the bullet quite hard enough on the powder. With note of this and a bit more pressure on the rod, the second shot went off with a reassuring bang!! About an inch high of center! Perfect. Note there was no swabbing between shots and the loading was still like butter. Love the black horn 209. So far so good with the scorpions and crushed rib's. Updates to follow...

cabage

Those bullets might be to loose... BH is a smokeless progressive burning powder. For it to burn efficiently it requires compression - so if the bullet does not fit snuggly and the load compressed you might not get what you are expecting when you pull the trigger. On the average I would suggest it should two hands on the ram rod with constant pressure to push the bullet down the bore.

Cabage

Knurl the TMZ bullet with a pair of bastard files and raise them up a thousandth or two. Its quick and easy. You just roll it between the 2 files about 4 passes depending on how hard you apply pressure.

The Knight blue sabots that came with my Spitfires are really easy to load and after wards they were pretty good and shot much better.

Ive shot Barnes boat tails in non boat tail sabots with good results also but they really need to be snug. IMO the solid copper bullets really seem to benefit from this rough surface against the sabot.

Interesting... will anything give this away?? Will the bullets not group or will they be abnormally low when compared to an equal sized bullet?
Does this knurling affect the accuracy? I don't need the tmz to be bigger i need them to be smaller, they load too hard (like all my body weight on the rod too hard).

If the scorpions turn out too be too loose I may try them in the shockwave sabot, which is a bit larger than the crushed rib.

Thanks for the feedback guys, I don't know anyone that has delved into muzzleloading so everyone here has been a huge help.