Good riflemen demand a good trigger...Most Knight rifles came with an adjustable Timney trigger...Couple this with a Green Mountain barrel and a good bedded stock and you will have a good shooting rifle...

Knight let T/C get a leg up in the Marketing...I told my buddies years ago that I would love to take over that Department at Knight...

T/C hit the infomercials with their Omega and Encore and made buyers think that cleaning a Knight was drudgery...When in reality having a bolt with an adjustable trigger is an advantage and one reason Knights are known for their accuracy...

The Discs are an advantage as well...No more fumbling with primers, dropping them, pulling out the pocket knife to get them out of the plunger area...Simply open the bolt, drop the disc in and close, couldn't be simpler...

Expert riflemen demand a good trigger, the bolt and disc compliment this trigger...

Marketing influences customers decisions...It's why some buy a certain powder because it's "cleaner" even though it's twice as much or has less velocity...

It's why customers buy certain bullets because they load easier with no regard to terminal ballistics or their poor ballistic coefficient...

It's why customers buy powder formed into pellets instead of using loose...Without realizing that when you are muzzloading you are also handloading and you get the best accuracy from loose...

From a design standpoint, the Knights are superior...

sabotloader;my thoughts exactly,it's very hard for any american company to compete with cheap foreign labor and copycat design.at this day and age it gets hard to find a made in USA label but i do look for it and don't mind paying a little extra doing what i was taught at my household at a very young age,try to keep your money close to home.....karl

"Hey im entitled to my own opinion too. Lets face it, we All have our favorites, some others though clearly have more love and closeness to the companies "

Yep, you are, but I think the point is that you can promote what you like without running down other good rifles. Someone posts a great positive post about a great shooting muzzleloader and all you can do is knock the company? Knight muzzleloaders were shooting 1 inch groups before you ever picked up a muzzleloader.

And those "silly" primer holders are somewhat antiquated now, but at the time they came out, they were the only waterproof primer system on the market. Yes, Knight lagged behind for a while and paid the price, but that does not change the truth of the 1st post on this thread: the extreme remains one of the most accurate rifles out there.

I was a diehard CVA/BPI owner and i still like some of their guns...i even still like the ones i sold. After buying an Accura and being bit by a higher quality product, i wanted to try what many people claim is one of the best ......GMB and Knight!!!!

The Accura was/is so good and the GMB54-120 was so close in price i knew i couldnt go wrong....and i wasnt. Everything about the GMB54-120 is top notch and knowing it was based on a DISC Extreme i had to have more.

Then i found an old LK93 for only $100 and man its incredible and i like it much more than my old T/C Thunderhawk 54. I needed a little help from Al and Sam at Knight and they sealed my love affair with Knight quality and customer service...This old gal will shoot and shoot with the best of the plunger guns....except maybe a White.

I bought a new Elite 45 and Extreme 50 the same day for a fraction of msrp. They had an extra Elite 45 and i had to make sure it ended up with someone that i knew would enjoy it. Not just because it was a Knight but a low serial number 45cal Elite which would likely end up gathering dust in a closet next to a 50cal that was actually used.

When push comes to shove, Knight will now always get first shot at my money. They earned it and i enjoy giving my money to an American company built on a foundation of quality and the best customer service ive ever gotten. I will gladly pay a bit more now that ive felt the difference and my strong desire to see Knight come back in force.

Im not bashing CVA and even recommend some of them. The 2010 lineup is a huge improvement over pre-Accura/Bergara barrel quality guns but it took them years to approach similar quality that Knight and T/C have made for years. Now they flood the market with them in an attempt to saturate the market and make it hard for more expensive brands to compete.

Knight will succeed as long as our economy and market can support the demand. The Extreme truly is one of the best ever made and mine will shoot just about anything ive tried into sub 2" consistently even with pretty hot loads.

Born to Hunt

I usually dont reply to your off the wall post's. I understand you are a kid, in mature, and very in experienced with what's going on in the industry other then the CVA"S.

Knight Rifles has plenty of guns to offer if they chose to. I actually agree with waiting and bringing out a new redesigned ML that will blow all others away. Actually the Elites already do with a Lehigh conversion. But who wants to buy a ML and have to spend even more money to make it better. Right now the T/C triumph is probably the best in production ML to buy. Very clean,light weight,good triggers, and very accurate.

Obviously you have lot's of people fooled on this board. If you want to be the next Toby Bridges/Randy Wakeman i highly suggest you shoot and test/hunt with a wide variety of Muzzleloaders bullets powders etc. You have nothing to offer or knowledge on anything but CVA.

The truth of CVA is very simple. They invested in better barrels and attached the same old crap they had before on them. And actually there barrels aren't want they are made out to be either. But they are a huge improvement over what was offered before.

So how about a good fitting stock? Trigger and barrel dont do you any good when the stocks are set up wrong

I have one of all three; a knight, a TC, and an Accura. Granted I haven't shot the Accura yet and I do like a lot of things about it, like how it should be easier clean than the knight and it does seem a little lighter/ quicker than the knight, going from feel I do like the knight more. The knight is built like a rifle, a lot of other muzzle loaders feel like toys in comparison. Taking CVA for an example, i cant believe how cheap the stock on the new optima feels. The Accura feels a lot better, but I have already put a gouge in the soft alloy receiver and I haven't even shot it yet. Not to mention that Knights used to be (mine was) made in my hometown by people that I know!

Knight rifles are responsible for their demise. Knights were very good rifles until the company got all innovative and made a whole bunch of new models. Some of those new models had problems; others did not sell well. There was a recall on the Knight Revolution rifle. What did Knight do? They made the Revolution II.

i surely hope that Knight comes bouncing back with a few models that are made totally in the USA.

[quote=Grouse45;3670224]
If you want to be the next Toby Bridges/Randy Wakeman i highly suggest you shoot and test/hunt with a wide variety of Muzzleloaders bullets powders etc. quote]

I would never want to be the next Toby or Randy, but I have to agree that even opinions should have some merit in experience to be valid. Just repeating something we heard or decided on with out trying doesn't bear much substance in my book. I didn't just wake up and decide one day that I liked my Triumph, or my Knights but didn't like my CVA's. I actually have quite a few muzzleloaders that I like including my Lymans my T/C's, my Pedersoli's, etc,etc. I don't know yet about my Whites as I haven't shot them. I just seemed to categorize them over the years the more I shot them and just like cream rises to the top the T/C's and Knights rose to the top. In Traditionals the Lymans and Pedersoli's are at the top. Just my preference.

I always wondered if during the 90's if TC was supplying guns to every hunting show on tv for free. It was amazing how the remington 700's vanished and the TC platform gun was on every show. Very smart marketing idea. My ol mk85 fits me like a glove,its taken many more deer then my 30-06. I'm waiting for Knights new gun for sure.I wish I had bought some of the disc guns that were being sold new for 179 bucks on gunbroker.