Best ML for the money
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
Hey guys I think we can all get along.
Most of these rifles shoot better than we do. That's an excellent group batchief. Your pointing precision is at least 1/2 MOA and the rifle "HAS TO BE BETTER". Did you use the wadcutter "trashcan" for those groups? The wadcutter is an excellent target bullet and a very stable one in spite of the low BC.
When I go to the range I can't get that kind of group. First I don't shoot from a bench, I don't shoot with with bags, and I don't use scopes. I just can't point that precisely (under .5 MOA). Can't do it. No fault of my rifles.
I do have very good sense how well I will shoot while hunting though and that is what I am primarily looking for. What is my limit ... and then the challenge of the hunt is to get within that limit to take the game.
When I account for what I expect my pointing imprecision is, I am impressed though with my groups and am surprised at what a wide range of loads shoot well within the range afforded by my pointing imprecision under field conditions.
Most rifles shoot better than their owners can point. I think your targets say as much about the your abilities and the conditions under which you shot those targets than they do about the rifle itself. Granted one can't do that unless the rifle is precise, but if you compare that to another's targer who isn't as good a pointer then the whole difference may not be the rifle at all but rather the individual shooting the target.
There are are alot of fine muzzleloaders and while I don't own a White, I think I would count it among the best. I've never once read a complaint about a White by its owner, not once. And I can't say that about any other rifle except maybe the knights.
Most of these rifles shoot better than we do. That's an excellent group batchief. Your pointing precision is at least 1/2 MOA and the rifle "HAS TO BE BETTER". Did you use the wadcutter "trashcan" for those groups? The wadcutter is an excellent target bullet and a very stable one in spite of the low BC.
When I go to the range I can't get that kind of group. First I don't shoot from a bench, I don't shoot with with bags, and I don't use scopes. I just can't point that precisely (under .5 MOA). Can't do it. No fault of my rifles.
I do have very good sense how well I will shoot while hunting though and that is what I am primarily looking for. What is my limit ... and then the challenge of the hunt is to get within that limit to take the game.
When I account for what I expect my pointing imprecision is, I am impressed though with my groups and am surprised at what a wide range of loads shoot well within the range afforded by my pointing imprecision under field conditions.
Most rifles shoot better than their owners can point. I think your targets say as much about the your abilities and the conditions under which you shot those targets than they do about the rifle itself. Granted one can't do that unless the rifle is precise, but if you compare that to another's targer who isn't as good a pointer then the whole difference may not be the rifle at all but rather the individual shooting the target.
There are are alot of fine muzzleloaders and while I don't own a White, I think I would count it among the best. I've never once read a complaint about a White by its owner, not once. And I can't say that about any other rifle except maybe the knights.
#33
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 201
Those shots were from the bench utilizing sandbags. Underclocked designed a bullet he calls the "UC Shorty". I,,as well as a few other White shooters purchased the mould from Lee. This range session was just an attempt to find out whether the bullet would fly right.
As you can see....it did. UC can give ya more specifics on the weight,,,etc. Heck,,I've slept a few times since then.
You're absolutely correct, that there are other rifles that will shoot a conical. Knight used conicals to win the Manufacturer's shoot in Friendship for what,,,,5 or 6 years in a row??
As you can see....it did. UC can give ya more specifics on the weight,,,etc. Heck,,I've slept a few times since then.
You're absolutely correct, that there are other rifles that will shoot a conical. Knight used conicals to win the Manufacturer's shoot in Friendship for what,,,,5 or 6 years in a row??
Last edited by batchief909; 12-11-2009 at 05:39 PM.
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
Those shots were from the bench utilizing sandbags. Underclocked designed a bullet he calls the "UC Shorty". I,,as well as a few other White shooters purchased the mould from Lee. This range session was just an attempt to find out whether the bullet would fly right.
As you can see....it did. UC can give ya more specifics on the weight,,,etc. Heck,,I've slept a few times since then.
As you can see....it did. UC can give ya more specifics on the weight,,,etc. Heck,,I've slept a few times since then.
Last edited by Pglasgow; 12-11-2009 at 06:19 PM.
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
It was a limited group buy from Lee. I suppose Lee still has the cherry but I don't know what it would take to get them up and going on the molds again. I think we ordered 25 molds and those were all claimed from the get-go. My thinking was to design a bullet that would do well in both the Whites and the 1:28/1:30 twist rifles and it seems that was accomplished. Batchief's group was the first fired with the bullet so far as I know.
I think most of those molds drop bullets at about .505 diameter, some a fraction less and some a fraction more. Easily sized down to .501 if need be.
ps: Have Dan whip you up some to try. Can't beat his prices - makes casting them yourself almost seem like a waste.
I think most of those molds drop bullets at about .505 diameter, some a fraction less and some a fraction more. Easily sized down to .501 if need be.
ps: Have Dan whip you up some to try. Can't beat his prices - makes casting them yourself almost seem like a waste.
Last edited by Underclocked; 12-11-2009 at 08:06 PM.
#37
Spike
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location:
Posts: 27
No I don't know,"so much" as you stated. That is why I asked. Guys like Lee, Cayugad, spainel, and mountaindevil have probably pulled the trigger on more guns than I'll ever have the chance to shot. I have been reading there post to other questions for a while now and have learn they give good solid advise when asked. I wasn't looking for opinions... I was looking for knowlege.
I think maybe you should go back and read your initial post in this thread, YOU asked for opinions. I made it easier for you to see.
OK, I know there are many great ML out there. What in your opinion in the best side lock on the market. And what is the best inline on the market.
When I say best I'm talking about.
Appearence
Fit and finish
Sights
Accurate
availabilty of parts
availabilty of accesories
Price
Best for conicals
best for sabots
Ease of cleaning
Also, if you have a favorite that may not be considered the "best" please let me know. For me it isn't always the quality or price that makes it the best, but the fact that a perticular gun or bow just gives you the confidence needed to make the shot when the moment of truth is in front of you.
__________________
Paul Niskanen
When I say best I'm talking about.
Appearence
Fit and finish
Sights
Accurate
availabilty of parts
availabilty of accesories
Price
Best for conicals
best for sabots
Ease of cleaning
Also, if you have a favorite that may not be considered the "best" please let me know. For me it isn't always the quality or price that makes it the best, but the fact that a perticular gun or bow just gives you the confidence needed to make the shot when the moment of truth is in front of you.
__________________
Paul Niskanen
It looks to me, you had you mind made up from the start. That is too bad, because several people went out of their way to point you in the White direction. I would suggest you go back, open your mind, and read their replies again. There are other brands of individual rifles that CAN shoot conicals as well as a White, but EVERY White "straight out of the box" can shoot conicals better than any other brand as a whole. No CONTEST there!
Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Moravia NY USA
Posts: 2,164
I normally just lurk here, but every now and then I feel compelled to jump in, especially when someone steps on their wanker.
I think maybe you should go back and read your initial post in this thread, YOU asked for opinions. I made it easier for you to see.
It looks to me, you had you mind made up from the start. That is too bad, because several people went out of their way to point you in the White direction. I would suggest you go back, open your mind, and read their replies again. There are other brands of individual rifles that CAN shoot conicals as well as a White, but EVERY White "straight out of the box" can shoot conicals better than any other brand as a whole. No CONTEST there!
Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!
I think maybe you should go back and read your initial post in this thread, YOU asked for opinions. I made it easier for you to see.
It looks to me, you had you mind made up from the start. That is too bad, because several people went out of their way to point you in the White direction. I would suggest you go back, open your mind, and read their replies again. There are other brands of individual rifles that CAN shoot conicals as well as a White, but EVERY White "straight out of the box" can shoot conicals better than any other brand as a whole. No CONTEST there!
Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,037
We haven't seen a lot of Big Paul since last winter. Then he was busy stirring the pot telling everybody how horrible the customer service was at T/C. Now he is down on White's. Who will it be next??? I, for one, am sitting on the edge of my seat.