Solid Stainless Barrel VS non Stainless
11-12-2009 | 06:25 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Sep 2009
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Weathershield is probably some sort of chrome or other alloy-plating given in an electro-polishing bath to bond it to the metal underneath then... Problem is, that kind of stuff will rub off and can't be done to as high of tolerances. Probably no problem for the low-pressures of MLs.
11-12-2009 | 07:07 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
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From:
Breechplug,
We're cool. Obviously, I really believe in the benefits of a stainless barrel. And I have a real life experience to back it up.
I think most people would like to have something impervious to corrosion. But as I said before, all metals oxidize (corrode) it is how they do that which determines their corrosion resistance. Corrosion is best defined as the "loss of metal". When one looks at a chrome bumper, he probably doesn't realize that the surface of the bumper is oxidized (corroded). That thin layer of oxidation though protects the chrome plating from further loss to the environment. When one looks at a nickel, he will notice that it is also oxidized with a thin layer which protects the metal underneath from further oxidation.
Iron on the other hand is totally different. It oxidizes and then flakes. The more it oxidizes, the more it corrodes away "like a cancer". The idea behind stainless is to give the alloy the oxidation properties of chromium and nickel such that a layer of oxidation protects the alloy from corrosion. When you shoot the rifle, you will strip this oxidation from the bore but it will be replaced by another thin layer. In any event, its how stainless oxidizes which gives it its corrosion resistant properties.
As for you testing I was serious about that. You seemed dissatisfied with my experience and I am suggesting that you test it yourself. And try it on a carbon steel barrel also. I am quite sure that when you have the "proof" right in front of you it will be clear what the difference is.
We're cool. Obviously, I really believe in the benefits of a stainless barrel. And I have a real life experience to back it up.
I think most people would like to have something impervious to corrosion. But as I said before, all metals oxidize (corrode) it is how they do that which determines their corrosion resistance. Corrosion is best defined as the "loss of metal". When one looks at a chrome bumper, he probably doesn't realize that the surface of the bumper is oxidized (corroded). That thin layer of oxidation though protects the chrome plating from further loss to the environment. When one looks at a nickel, he will notice that it is also oxidized with a thin layer which protects the metal underneath from further oxidation.
Iron on the other hand is totally different. It oxidizes and then flakes. The more it oxidizes, the more it corrodes away "like a cancer". The idea behind stainless is to give the alloy the oxidation properties of chromium and nickel such that a layer of oxidation protects the alloy from corrosion. When you shoot the rifle, you will strip this oxidation from the bore but it will be replaced by another thin layer. In any event, its how stainless oxidizes which gives it its corrosion resistant properties.
As for you testing I was serious about that. You seemed dissatisfied with my experience and I am suggesting that you test it yourself. And try it on a carbon steel barrel also. I am quite sure that when you have the "proof" right in front of you it will be clear what the difference is.
11-13-2009 | 01:18 AM
#23
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Breechplug,
We're cool. Obviously, I really believe in the benefits of a stainless barrel. And I have a real life experience to back it up.
I think most people would like to have something impervious to corrosion. But as I said before, all metals oxidize (corrode) it is how they do that which determines their corrosion resistance. Corrosion is best defined as the "loss of metal". When one looks at a chrome bumper, he probably doesn't realize that the surface of the bumper is oxidized (corroded). That thin layer of oxidation though protects the chrome plating from further loss to the environment. When one looks at a nickel, he will notice that it is also oxidized with a thin layer which protects the metal underneath from further oxidation.
Iron on the other hand is totally different. It oxidizes and then flakes. The more it oxidizes, the more it corrodes away "like a cancer". The idea behind stainless is to give the alloy the oxidation properties of chromium and nickel such that a layer of oxidation protects the alloy from corrosion. When you shoot the rifle, you will strip this oxidation from the bore but it will be replaced by another thin layer. In any event, its how stainless oxidizes which gives it its corrosion resistant properties.
As for you testing I was serious about that. You seemed dissatisfied with my experience and I am suggesting that you test it yourself. And try it on a carbon steel barrel also. I am quite sure that when you have the "proof" right in front of you it will be clear what the difference is.
We're cool. Obviously, I really believe in the benefits of a stainless barrel. And I have a real life experience to back it up.
I think most people would like to have something impervious to corrosion. But as I said before, all metals oxidize (corrode) it is how they do that which determines their corrosion resistance. Corrosion is best defined as the "loss of metal". When one looks at a chrome bumper, he probably doesn't realize that the surface of the bumper is oxidized (corroded). That thin layer of oxidation though protects the chrome plating from further loss to the environment. When one looks at a nickel, he will notice that it is also oxidized with a thin layer which protects the metal underneath from further oxidation.
Iron on the other hand is totally different. It oxidizes and then flakes. The more it oxidizes, the more it corrodes away "like a cancer". The idea behind stainless is to give the alloy the oxidation properties of chromium and nickel such that a layer of oxidation protects the alloy from corrosion. When you shoot the rifle, you will strip this oxidation from the bore but it will be replaced by another thin layer. In any event, its how stainless oxidizes which gives it its corrosion resistant properties.
As for you testing I was serious about that. You seemed dissatisfied with my experience and I am suggesting that you test it yourself. And try it on a carbon steel barrel also. I am quite sure that when you have the "proof" right in front of you it will be clear what the difference is.
I think you (misunderstood) my reason for quoting you on your reply. I never meant to shoot down your findings, as I myself had the same beliefs as you. I only meant to show what the (Makers of the Stainless Steel Barrels) had to say about what we thought.
Also I wanted other Forum Members findings about Stainless Steel vs Non SS and what they thought or found out. I have a Friend who has a TC Oncore with the SS Barrel, and believe me he is the perfect person to test the SS Barrel against it's effects on Snow, Rain, Weather, Humidity, and Black Powder Fouling. He puts his MLer to the extreme test when it comes to (Not) doing what your suppos-to when it comes to taking care of them to make sure these bad things never happen, not cleaning right away or wiping off after a rainy Hunt, ect. And his MLer SS Barrel looks great inside and out. Why do I use him as an example, because I got him into Mler Hunting and went with him when he bought his first MLer, a (TC Black Diamond) if I remember right. Anyway the following season he wanted to up-grade his TC with the Oncore and he asked me if I wanted to buy it for $50, the price was cheap enough and I said sure!
Well what a mistake as he never cleaned the MLer's (Blued Barrel) from the last season and after I bought it I noticed the badly uncleaned inside of the barrel (My fault for not looking inside it) as the outside still looked new.
Needless to say the barrel was shot beyond cleaning and it would'nt hold a 12" group to save your life, Im glad he got a SS Barrel with his next TC.
I am like (you) when it comes to doing what your suppos-to when it comes to caring for a MLer, especially the barrel, and in our case the SS version. My MLer's will also live on forever, as I take care of them and the SS parts will take care of me.
I personally have had the same results as you in your findings and I love the SS Barrels, they seem to clean easier with just a quick wipe down after a rain, and a regular cleaning after each shoot inside. And so far they do what there suppos-to outside and in.
So I BELIEVE YOU! and Im glad were Cool! Well got-to-go as My Stand is waiting and so is the Big Buck Im after. I just hope friday the 13th is good to me.
All My Best!
(BP) Ron
11-13-2009 | 04:30 AM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Likes: 0
TO COME
Shown here is the Omega™, .50 Cal, 28" Round Barrel, 209 Primer Ignition, Fluted Stainless Steel Barrel with Thumbhole Laminted Stock. No. 8913
Omega does come in stainless steel as well as that phony weather shield.
I just wish they made the Triumph in SS which they do not.
There is no substitute for good stainless and even the poorer grades are much better than good old blue, while weathershield only adds to the problems over time if they had chrome lined the barrel and done it right it might have been worth having shiny outside that will flake peel or rust from under [all of which have already been reported on several forums] is not so great as well as the fact that anything that shiny is not going hunting with me.
Shown here is the Omega™, .50 Cal, 28" Round Barrel, 209 Primer Ignition, Fluted Stainless Steel Barrel with Thumbhole Laminted Stock. No. 8913
Omega does come in stainless steel as well as that phony weather shield.
I just wish they made the Triumph in SS which they do not.
There is no substitute for good stainless and even the poorer grades are much better than good old blue, while weathershield only adds to the problems over time if they had chrome lined the barrel and done it right it might have been worth having shiny outside that will flake peel or rust from under [all of which have already been reported on several forums] is not so great as well as the fact that anything that shiny is not going hunting with me.
11-13-2009 | 04:30 AM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Likes: 0
TO COME
Shown here is the Omega™, .50 Cal, 28" Round Barrel, 209 Primer Ignition, Fluted Stainless Steel Barrel with Thumbhole Laminted Stock. No. 8913
Omega does come in stainless steel as well as that phony weather shield.
I just wish they made the Triumph in SS which they do not.
There is no substitute for good stainless and even the poorer grades are much better than good old blue, while weathershield only adds to the problems over time if they had chrome lined the barrel and done it right it might have been worth having shiny outside that will flake peel or rust from under [all of which have already been reported on several forums] is not so great as well as the fact that anything that shiny is not going hunting with me.
Shown here is the Omega™, .50 Cal, 28" Round Barrel, 209 Primer Ignition, Fluted Stainless Steel Barrel with Thumbhole Laminted Stock. No. 8913
Omega does come in stainless steel as well as that phony weather shield.
I just wish they made the Triumph in SS which they do not.
There is no substitute for good stainless and even the poorer grades are much better than good old blue, while weathershield only adds to the problems over time if they had chrome lined the barrel and done it right it might have been worth having shiny outside that will flake peel or rust from under [all of which have already been reported on several forums] is not so great as well as the fact that anything that shiny is not going hunting with me.
11-16-2009 | 04:06 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,470
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From:
Breechplug,
I'd say your buddy's experience would be a better example of what stainless can do.
As I said, its low humidity out here but blackpower residue will still destroy a carbon barrel out here. Until I lent the Kodiak Pro, I thought it would a stainless barrel also. I had mentioned this around a year ago ... basically to encourage people to consider a stainless barrel on their next purchase. I think its more important to take care of one's rifle than it is to buy a stainless barrel and I'm not suggesting that one should abuse his SS rifle.
That said, I am not at all surprised that your friend's SS encore is holding up in spite of the lack of meticulous care.
I'd say your buddy's experience would be a better example of what stainless can do.
As I said, its low humidity out here but blackpower residue will still destroy a carbon barrel out here. Until I lent the Kodiak Pro, I thought it would a stainless barrel also. I had mentioned this around a year ago ... basically to encourage people to consider a stainless barrel on their next purchase. I think its more important to take care of one's rifle than it is to buy a stainless barrel and I'm not suggesting that one should abuse his SS rifle.
That said, I am not at all surprised that your friend's SS encore is holding up in spite of the lack of meticulous care.
Last edited by Pglasgow; 11-16-2009 at 04:38 PM.
11-17-2009 | 02:33 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
I have been shooting My ACCURA's a-lot in the last few weeks to get ready for Opening Day this Saturday 11/21/09. I noticed that when I clean the SS Barrels they clean up much easier and faster than my non SS Barrels. It almost seems as if I cut the cleaning time by as much as 75% on the Barrel vs my non SS Barrel Mlers, as the fouling comes off much easier for some reason, anyone else notice this with there SS Barrel?
(BP)
(BP)
11-17-2009 | 08:24 PM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,470
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From:
.... I noticed that when I clean the SS Barrels they clean up much easier and faster than my non SS Barrels. It almost seems as if I cut the cleaning time by as much as 75% on the Barrel vs my non SS Barrel Mlers, as the fouling comes off much easier for some reason, anyone else notice this with there SS Barrel?
(BP)
(BP)
Last edited by Pglasgow; 11-17-2009 at 08:25 PM. Reason: misspelled
11-18-2009 | 12:03 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,420
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From: Where the ducks don't come no more
SwampCollie
I still think you have a very good gun and I am sure it will shoot very well for you. I think you may have been mis-lead a little with the 'stainless' 'weather shield' thing - but stlll that gun will work just fine.
Let me ask... did you do the normal thing when you loaded for your hunt? Did you strip the bore of all protection, with alcohol or something like alcohol? If you did the surface rust you experianced should not be considered as a surprise, especially if you live in an enviroment that might have a bit of acid type rain.
I have long ago given up on the thought of 'stipping' the bore to shoot sabots. Agreed the bore can not be heavily oiled - but it need not be stripped. The original thought of 'stripping' relates originally to shooting real BP then when sabots first came out oil would possibly cause the loss of some accuracy. With todays new formulation of sabots and sabots that fit tighter it is not necessary to 'strip' all of the protection out of the bore. You are just asking for the possibilty of rust.
For the last 4/5 years - I have given up on that task. I do not want to be hunting the rotten weather of Northern Idaho with a bare metal bore. To combat this I use Montana X-treme Bore Conditioner. It is an extremly light oil and contains glycol ether that drys and evaporates very rapidly.
As an example I was hunting in a rain/snow combination - i did have a muzzle mitt on the barrel but even then i was unconcerned about the bore rusting as it was still protected. When I got home I ran a dry patch to wipe the bore and collect any possible moisture. Then I ran a very lightly oiled BC patch and a tight fitting dry patch... The gun was still loaded and now the bore is protected for the next hunt. This procedure does not effect the accuracy of the rifle.
Just sharing some thoughts that work for me....
I still think you have a very good gun and I am sure it will shoot very well for you. I think you may have been mis-lead a little with the 'stainless' 'weather shield' thing - but stlll that gun will work just fine.
Let me ask... did you do the normal thing when you loaded for your hunt? Did you strip the bore of all protection, with alcohol or something like alcohol? If you did the surface rust you experianced should not be considered as a surprise, especially if you live in an enviroment that might have a bit of acid type rain.
I have long ago given up on the thought of 'stipping' the bore to shoot sabots. Agreed the bore can not be heavily oiled - but it need not be stripped. The original thought of 'stripping' relates originally to shooting real BP then when sabots first came out oil would possibly cause the loss of some accuracy. With todays new formulation of sabots and sabots that fit tighter it is not necessary to 'strip' all of the protection out of the bore. You are just asking for the possibilty of rust.
For the last 4/5 years - I have given up on that task. I do not want to be hunting the rotten weather of Northern Idaho with a bare metal bore. To combat this I use Montana X-treme Bore Conditioner. It is an extremly light oil and contains glycol ether that drys and evaporates very rapidly.
As an example I was hunting in a rain/snow combination - i did have a muzzle mitt on the barrel but even then i was unconcerned about the bore rusting as it was still protected. When I got home I ran a dry patch to wipe the bore and collect any possible moisture. Then I ran a very lightly oiled BC patch and a tight fitting dry patch... The gun was still loaded and now the bore is protected for the next hunt. This procedure does not effect the accuracy of the rifle.
Just sharing some thoughts that work for me....
Definately see what you are saying, and I really appreciate the guidence.
I likely did strip the bore of protectants. I've always been a dry barrel centerfire guy... so it sounds like something I'd do for sure.
I took it and shot it again on Sunday... I actually put the iron sights back on and shot them in as a foul weather back up. I have removable Leupold rings/bases. Gun still shoots better than me... so until it stops out performing its user... it'll have a good home in the woods with me.
Thanks again.