mitchmtm1

New to me Thompson Blackdiamond (22 /12 barrel).
First range session second shot the primer retention spring breaks! Now I need help to determine if it was user error, defective/old, or just bad luck.

Particulars.
The rifle was a pawn shop purchase. It looked like new, may have not even been shot. Yes I know this model is a few years and that may have contributed to the failure.

90gr tripple7 FFFG
Hornady .430 300gr hp/xtp
green crush rib sabot
Winchester W209 primers
Pink tape on plug.
swabbed between shots with windex/alcohol mix. Then 3 dry patches. (could some alcohol have gotten into the breach plug?)
Approximately 5 minutes between shots.


Any Ideas on what happened or how to stop this from happening again?


Thanks, Mitch







Also what the hell is this piece? It came out with the primer and does not seem to be broken off or missing from anywhere.

Buck Hunter 1

who cares send it back to TC and le them fix that gun.Lifetime Warranty That extra peice looks asthough it broke off when the spring unwrapped. Call TC maybe tey will send a new part ASAP>

MountainDevil54

ouch that could have hurt like a sob had it hit you in the face.

cayugad

I have a Black Diamond XR and am on my third breech plug nipple. Them springs just don't last forever. I am guessing the rifle not being new, was shot and then sat on a shelf for a long time. Maybe that spring was weak, who knows. I would just order the new nipple for it. Also those rifles can shoot #11 caps and Musket caps as well. I use the same 209 primer as you did. My last one has over two hundred shots on it.

sabotloader

mitchmtm1

Might check with Cayugad, he shoots a Black Diamond and for the primer retainer spring to break is not an unheard of problem. It has happened to him a few times.

Since the BD is a open breech - blow back can get back up the nipple farly easily and there really is nothing to hold the primer in place other the hammer spring. Plus using a W209, which creates a lot of heat and pressure on it's own adds to the problem. Another poit that adds to the problem is 3f Triple Seven - 3f ignites and reaches peak pressure so much faster than 2f that it will add to your blow back problem in that the bullet has not cleared nor has it progressed up the barrel far enough to increase the bore volume before 3f reaches peak pressure, especially with a 300 grain bullet. Thus the easy way to vent pressure is back through the breeh plug.

Couple of thoughts you might consider... Try some 2f powder, use a cooler primer. Here is a list compliled by Bridges..

Winchester 209ML ........................221 f.p.s.
Winchester 209 Triple Seven ML.....244 f.p.s.
Remington 209 Kleanbore ML ........318 f.p.s.
Std. Winchester No. 209A ..............336 f.p.s.
Std. Remington No. 209 .................341 f.p.s.
Cheddite No. 209 ...........................347 f.p.s.
Federal No. 209A ...........................381 f.p.s.
CCI 209M.....................................379 f.p.s.
Remington STS..............................338 f.p.s.


I 'think' Cayugad has gone to shooting #11 Mag caps from his BD to alleviate the whole problem.

You also can call TC and they will send you out some replace springs for your nipple...

mitchmtm1

Well the response from Thompson left a bit to be desired. Short and sweet.


The FFFg powder is to hot of a load in the Black Diamond. We recommend using Pyrodex powder.

Thank you,
Kathleen
Customer Service Rep.

flounder33

I agree that T/C could have done a better job in their customer relations in this instance. I really like my black diamond with the short barrel but I have never used the 209 primer. I have been using 2f 777 and get my best accuracy with about 80 grains using a #11 cap. The replacement 209 nipple is probably less than 10 bucks.
With this type of open breech gun make sure to wear safety glasses.
Art

Screwbolts

The Piece in question is called the anvil. This is normally inside of the primer and never seen. the anvil is what the firing pin of the gun smashes the cup into. it is this action that fires the primer.

In looking at your photos a peice of the side of your primer failed and let the pressure escape causing the damage to the spring. I would get another nipple and start over, does the nipple have the flash hole in it. if so the hole may have been enlarged allowing to much pressure to feed back to the primer, thus causing the failer.
Ken

cayugad

I was not sure how much Triple Seven 2f I shot out of mine but I looked and did find where I shot it. It worked real good. I save my 3f for my Whites. In 99% of my rifles 2f works just fine.

I would get a new nipple as I do not think they sell the retaining springs. Lat time I ordered a couple was from Midsouth Shooters Supply I believe. You want to try to make your own spring if your handy, out of some wire. I never tried it but thought about it. Also I shoot a lot of Goex out of mine, and Pyrodex RS.

I had stepped this distance off. After I got my range finder, I learned this was only 88 yards. But this is shooting large conicals out of the Black Diamond XR. These No Excuses were the 460 grain and are real accurate as well.

rafsob

You need to get rid of it and get something moe reliable. something like a good Hawkins:



The only changes I made was to replace the #11 nipple with a musket nipple. I shoot only black powder in it and have no troubles. I mold my own conical, R.E.A.L bullets and great results. My barrel is a 1 in 24" twist rate. I also shoot Barnes expanders. I love this gun.

You can find these sidelocks most everywhere and for a good price. I paid only $179.99 for this one on gun broker site. It shoots conicals very well and I have harvested a few nice deer with it.

Remember, "You get what you pay for!"