Not opinions just facts.
09-13-2009, 05:58 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Coralville, IA. USA
Posts: 3,802
AA 5744... $19 for a true pound, 43.5 grains/shot equals 160 shots, which comes out to $0.12/shot, with all the advantages of BH209 (and let's face it, BH209 IS smokeless powder formulated for volumetric measure with BP powder measures). At $38 per 10oz, shooting about 70 grains/weight per shot, you get 62 shots out of a can costs you $0.61/shot, or five times as much.
Mike
Mike
09-13-2009, 06:04 AM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
You're right Grouse, the math just doesn't add up. BH is quite a bit more expensive per bottle. That's cold hard fact. I don't own a crono but from what I've read on here, the velocity is not much different so you're going to have to use the same amount of both.
I still shoot BH but no where near as much as 777. That being said I consider myself a hunter not a shooter so I don't shoot near as much as most of you guys.
As for the price, yes it's getting absurd. I'm lucky that I can get BH locally at Sportsmans for about $31. But I foresee a day not too far from now (and that day may have already came) when it will be $40 for me and I will probably stop buying it. BH is a little more accurate for me, but only about 1/2in difference. The deer/hogs/bear/elk/pronghorn I shoot won't notice that difference. At the range I like not having to swab. But it's been years since I've had to shoot a deer twice with a ML so I don't see the need.
I equate the price of BH to the price of Nosler/Barnes/Lehigh. FOR ME, they have crossed over a line of not being that much better to justify the price. My $0.02
I still shoot BH but no where near as much as 777. That being said I consider myself a hunter not a shooter so I don't shoot near as much as most of you guys.
As for the price, yes it's getting absurd. I'm lucky that I can get BH locally at Sportsmans for about $31. But I foresee a day not too far from now (and that day may have already came) when it will be $40 for me and I will probably stop buying it. BH is a little more accurate for me, but only about 1/2in difference. The deer/hogs/bear/elk/pronghorn I shoot won't notice that difference. At the range I like not having to swab. But it's been years since I've had to shoot a deer twice with a ML so I don't see the need.
I equate the price of BH to the price of Nosler/Barnes/Lehigh. FOR ME, they have crossed over a line of not being that much better to justify the price. My $0.02
09-13-2009, 06:35 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Camp Lejeune, NC
Posts: 3,869
Nothing real bad at all. I was taking a look at the new Remington shotgun when a customer walked in. I listened to the whole conversation about 777 and BH209. When the owner was out of BH209 and the customer was pointed to powder valley the dispute began. The owner does have a point when powder is in stock. 777 cost $29.99 and BH209 cost $32.99. It's still more and you get more with 777. But i still prefer BH209. But when you look at online ordering 777 is way cheaper as you can see above.
09-13-2009, 06:47 AM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
TNHagies
It is true that up to about 110 gr the velocity is the same or close to 777 FFF,it is also true that 120 gr is slightly past the point of how much 777 you can burn in the length barrels we have been using. That is not true of BH209 the limit that is set by how much you can burn is MUCH higher, there for the obtainable velocity is not limited to what you can get with 777. Lee
It is true that up to about 110 gr the velocity is the same or close to 777 FFF,it is also true that 120 gr is slightly past the point of how much 777 you can burn in the length barrels we have been using. That is not true of BH209 the limit that is set by how much you can burn is MUCH higher, there for the obtainable velocity is not limited to what you can get with 777. Lee
09-13-2009, 04:48 PM
#26
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Lee
But somewhere in there you also have to calculate the ability of the bullet to handle the velocity - correct?
And since there are probably more people shooting some form of XTP or Hornady - the velocity thing sure could be a factor in bullet performance at the target - should say animal
But somewhere in there you also have to calculate the ability of the bullet to handle the velocity - correct?
And since there are probably more people shooting some form of XTP or Hornady - the velocity thing sure could be a factor in bullet performance at the target - should say animal
09-13-2009, 05:18 PM
#27
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 88
Lee
But somewhere in there you also have to calculate the ability of the bullet to handle the velocity - correct?
And since there are probably more people shooting some form of XTP or Hornady - the velocity thing sure could be a factor in bullet performance at the target - should say animal
But somewhere in there you also have to calculate the ability of the bullet to handle the velocity - correct?
And since there are probably more people shooting some form of XTP or Hornady - the velocity thing sure could be a factor in bullet performance at the target - should say animal
It's funny. When I first started bow hunting many years ago, I had to pull 70 lbs, just because. My mentor that got me started in the sport used to say to me, "how far through the animal do you want that arrow to go?" All it took was a few deer kills at 15 yards and a few mid 20 degree days to understand what my buddy was trying to tell me.
I have never recovered an xtp being shot between 1600 and 1750fps in the few short yrs that I have been ML hunting. And the xtp has never let me down.
09-14-2009, 05:11 AM
#29
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Well, for those of us that spend some time on the smokeless section of the forums it is not much of a problem.
Just to give an idea the XTP in 300 and 250 gr is widely use and liked as is the bonded SW and all the Barnes and Nosler partition and A frame bullets, I am surprised they have not found the Lehigh and Gold Bullets as they work fine at those velocities.
I guess I do not find it a problem as all the bullets I like for hunting are capable at higher speeds than we use with BH. The only one that shoots real well at those speeds and fragments if you push it to had are the standard SW and they are replaced by the FTX which is designed for those speeds and shoots the same as the SW. Lee
Just to give an idea the XTP in 300 and 250 gr is widely use and liked as is the bonded SW and all the Barnes and Nosler partition and A frame bullets, I am surprised they have not found the Lehigh and Gold Bullets as they work fine at those velocities.
I guess I do not find it a problem as all the bullets I like for hunting are capable at higher speeds than we use with BH. The only one that shoots real well at those speeds and fragments if you push it to had are the standard SW and they are replaced by the FTX which is designed for those speeds and shoots the same as the SW. Lee
