Here's the situation... I'm a Marine stationed at Parris Island, SC. During deer season we conduct reduction hunts on base twice a month. The dates are chosen based on when there willbe no recruit training conducted in the woods. We are taken to a treestand and once we get in it, we can't get back out until they come pick usup. The hunts usually start at 3:00PM so we aren't in the stands that long. Currently we are only allowed to use "shotguns" for these hunts. Some people use buckshot, some use rifled slugs, and some guy fire sabot slugs through rifled bores with scoped mounted.

I'm trying to convince the powers that be to allow us to also use muzzleloaders during these hunts. I've written a Point Paper (Naval Correspondance) and plan to submit it to the Assistant Chief of Staff when they conduct their annual review of the reduction hunts. My arguement is that a muzzleloader is pretty much the same as firing a sabot slug from a rifled barrel shotgun. I wrote a lot more but it's on my computer at work so I can post it yet. I feel my arguement is pretty convincing but I spoke to the A/CS today and officers being officers, naturally he wants some sort of trajectory diagram illustrating my theory. They want to ensure it is as safe as a shotgun and that the maximum ranges are similar.

I basically need some sort of proof that a muzzleloader can't launch a bullet much further than a shotgun. Is my assumption pretty accurate and if so, can anyone provide me with some hard proof or a diagram proving it?

This would be a great thing for the hunters who participate in these hunts and may also open the door for other weapons to be used.

Thanks!

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but the Hornady website has a lot of ballistics info- www.hornady.com

For example, here are the ballistics for a 12 gauge slug (SST):

12 Gauge 300 gr. SST Slug [align=right]8623[/align] Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs) Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd 150 yd 200 yd 2000/2644 1816/2196 1641/1793 1482/1463 1341/1198 Trajectory (inches) Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd 150 yd 200 yd -1.5 2.4 2.7 0 -6.7
I couldn't find any charts for muzzleloading bullets on the website, but they do give the BC and SD of the bullets- for example the .452 300 grain XTP:
50 CAL SABOT WITH 45 CAL 300 GR XTP MAG BULLET [align=right]6726[/align] Diameter Weight Ballistics Coefficient Sectional Density .452" 300 gr. 0.200 0.210Looking on the Traditions website, they give listings for various bullets, powder charges & velocities. For example, the a 300 grain saboted bullet behind 100 grains of 777 will be 1700 fps. Then, you can plug that into the ballistics calculator on the Hornady site, and you'll get:

Ballistics Table in Yards300 grain XTP 300 gr., .200 B.C.www.hornady.comRange (yards)Muzzle50100200300400500Velocity (fps)17001536138911561014923855Energy (ft.-lb.)192515721285890684568487Trajectory (100 yd. zero)-1.51.10.0-16.7-59.2-134.3-247.5Come Up in MOA-1.5-2.10.08.018.932.147.3
I'm sorry this is kind of round-about - I'm sure one of the other guys will have something more concise for you.

But you can see that in this example, the 300 grain XTP drops more than 20 feet at 500 yards and is only moving at 850 feet per second or so. From that you can make a pretty convincing argument that a ML bullet is not going to go any farther than a shotgun slug. Unless someone is shooting in the air at a 45 degree angle, the ML bullet is going to hit the ground within 300 - 400 yards and if it is still in the air, shouldn't retain enough velocity to cause harm at more than 800 yards or so.

Hope this helps, at least a little!

(Sorry- after it uploaded I saw that the charts didn't translate well- I guess you'll need to go on the Hornady site yourself to look it up [:@])

SW-The Hornady 12ga SST shotgun slug pushes a 300gr SST bullet at 2000 fps with 2664 ft/lbs of energy. My Omeganeeds 135 gr ofpowder to push that heavy a bullet at that speed. The 260gr Nosler that I hunt with,sighted zero at 150 yds is -7.9" at 200 yds.(BigGameInfo.com ballistics table) Hornady trajectory table shows the 12ga SST slug -6.7" at 200 yds when zeroed at 150 yds. The newer slugs in full rifled barrels are very close to MZ's. MZ's are legal in many states shotgun seasons. Semper Fi.

Charlie

Outstanding info fellas! That's exactly what I'm looking for. If I can break those figures down "Mr. Potato Head Style" then maybe the officers can understand them and I won't need a colorful picture to make my point.

The guys are spot on, those new SST slugs surpass the ballistic performance of all but really stoked-up ML loads.

The icing would be accuracy. It would be straightforward to demonstrate that a ML with the same bullet is more accurate than a rifled shotgun barrel with these slugs. I have yet to see a shotgun that consistently shoots 1-1.5 MOA but it's easy with a ML. Not only don't you want the bullet to travel, but you want it to hit the deer you are aiming at. BOTH reduce the chance or errant rounds.

I hunt at the Fort Knox military base for deer...they allow shotguns or muzzleloaders. I have killed deer with both on the base, but the 12-gauge Hornady 300 gr SST at 2000 ft/s is HOT.

Fort Knox limits hunters to 10 rounds for shotguns (buckshot not allowed)or 10 bullets with 100 grain charges for muzzleloaders.

They also expressly forbid the use of smokeless powder (e.g. H110) for use in muzzleloaders (i.e. Savage 110ML) which can produce some seriously hot ballistics.