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Shock wave
I have had a horrible time with these bullets. First i shot a doe right behind the shoulder and half of the bullet broke off and went into the guts. Second i shot a doe right in the shoulder and it riped a chunk of flesh off but it never penitrated and the deer was seen walking arouond fine about two days later so i threw them in the box. But i am possitive it is'nt due to the powder because i haven't had any problems before and we went up to our closest dealer and they have gotten tons of complants about this same bullet wich is made by hornady.
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RE: Shock wave
Are these the blue tipped bonded bullets or the non bonded yellow tips?
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RE: Shock wave
While there are lots of complaints about the bullet.. there are others that swear by them. It seems strange that some people have such great luck with a bullet hunting the same kind of animal while someone else has terrible luck. I always wonder why they work in one situation and not another.
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RE: Shock wave
Sorry to hear that, however that has not been my experience w/ SWs . I used them on 3 deer last year using the bonded 250 ,and the farthest one went 35 yds and wound channels were impressive!. I just posted pics of the grousome holes and deep penetration in the buck I shot this year ,using the std 250 SW. IMO for the price, you cant beat em.
As to why they didnt work for you, I wish I had an answer for you. Curious though ,on the 2nd doe, how do you know what the bullet actually did, if the deer was still walking around , are you sure you didnt miss, are you even sure it was the same doe if it was "walking around fine two days later"? I would imagine if the deer was hit in the shoulder w/ a large cal. bullet it would at least have a limp, even if the bullet didnt penetrate much. |
RE: Shock wave
I think he recovered the first one, and not the second?? So he has one doe that the bullet fragmented on and the second he is claiming he shot it in the shoulder and it splattered without penetration. He must have been real close on that second deer.
I honestly think if all my shots were close, I would he using a 300 grain XTP and let that thing splatter inside and do the deed. |
RE: Shock wave
avengerboy
Think Cayugad probably said it best.... Good and Bad... I have often heard and do continue to hear stories about the lack of SST/SW performance @ closer ranges - that seems to be the common denomiator. I am not a pointy bullet fan - at the ranges I hunt in and shoot in a 200+ yard is not even thought of. and anything inside that 200 yard range is easily covered by a variety of non-pointy bullets... This was written by a well respected (at least by me) poster... All Deer were shot with T/C Triumph, 250grn SST, Harvester sabots, CCI primers, 110grns of BH209. The First Deer i shot in Kentucky was a Spike Buck. The SST caught part of the front shoulder and traveled thru the Deer and came to rest in the Deers back leg. The Deer ended up going about 50yds with not one spot of blood.  I actually couldnt find it, went back and got Big6x6 and he helped look for it and he found it after about 20minutes of looking in the dark. The next Deer i shot in Kentucky was a nice Doe. My bullet entered in the left shoulder and exited to the right of the right shoulder about 7 inches. This Doe went about 70yds with not one drop of blood.  I found this Deer after about 10 minutes of looking. The next Deer i shot was here in PA. This bullet went in the left shoulder and exited half way back the Deer thru the ribs on the right side. This Deer went about 50yds in a field and died. There was frost on the ground so i could clearly see the path of the Deer. Not one drop of blood. The 250grn SST will not be in the Deer woods with me anymore. I will note these are the new 250grn SST"S. I have used the old one's with out any problems. _________________ http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10479 |
RE: Shock wave
i've shot deer and hogsat ranges of 20 yards to 192 yards with the 250 grain SST/Shockwave: The vast majority of those kills were bang flops. Never had an animal get away. Never had to trail a deer or hogshot with an SST/Shockwave either. A couple of animals were down but needed a coup de grace so they did not suffer any more than necessary.
About half of myshots on deer and the vast majority of my shotson hogs with the SST/Shockwave do not exit. That tells me that they are expanding. I know that at least somethat exited expanded on90-120pound deer that were hit behind the shoulderbecause of the size of the exit hole. One guy says they blow up on a very thin shoulder bone and another says they fully penetrate the animal without expanding. The search for the elusive bullet that will turn a gut shot into a bang flop 100 percent of the time continues. When you find it let me know so i can buy some. My record of gut shots this year is unenviable. But then i did recover them all. :D:D |
RE: Shock wave
IMO you've got to treat Shockwaves in a ML just like you would treat a Ballistic Tip in a centerfire. They are not made for up close hunting, and they will not always exit. What they will do is shoot very accurately, make a great load for a hunter who reaches out a ways, and work up close if you are careful with your shot placement.
I had one this year that didn't exit, and because of that, it left a lousy bloodtrail on an otherwise fantastic shot. I don't consider that to be the bullets fault, or even a failure. It did what it was supposed to do, it hit exactly where I aimed, and it opened quickly, and itshredded the vitals. I was just too close, and velocity was too high, it pulled apart instead staying together and exiting. Thats about what I expected given what I've seen with Ballistic Tips at close range. I would not hesitate to load my ML with Shockwaves again. That said, with the stand placement I've settled on for now, 75yards is as far as I can see. Next yearI will be using something more suited for close range woods hunting, like Barnes Expanders, not a SST/Shockwave. |
RE: Shock wave
I cant say to much about sw. I just started using them this year and took a 8pt at fifty yards. The bullet performed perfectly. Exit hole was about twice as big as the entrance hole. The buck ran 40 yards maybe. I must add that I was shooting the bonded sw.
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RE: Shock wave
This is getting a bit confusing, for one person they fragment like a Power Belt for the next they go through the shoulder bones with out opening up. And for me they have worked just fine. I did hear that both the plastic tip and the bullet were changed and I hope that's not where the problem is as I bought a large batch of them on sale two years a go and they have have preformed well.
I personally like to load with 250gr Gold Dot when hunting on my own property which is very thick but I usually get a permit to hunt the National Wildlife Refuge and the is a WMA about 12 miles away that is very good hunting and in those places I have a couple spots where I might get a shot as far as I am willing to shoot, there I want SW's. Lee |
RE: Shock wave
What gun and powder load and bullet weight are you using? I do swear by them and that's all I use and always get a bang flop.
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RE: Shock wave
Iv'e had 4 good kills (and hopfully a 5th & even a 6th on sunday) so mabye Im bais, but for now Im gonna chalk the SW failures to "somtimes bullets do wierd things". Muzzleloader are not CF rifle, (which have their problems w/ bullet performance too), they're are many different variables, such as powders& charges, sabots, barrel cleaning ,seating pressure and the shooter themselves, to put blame on the bullet alone.
In my expierience SW ,bonded and std, expand good from ranges of 20 yds to 90 yds, and Im sure much farther , at MV of 2000fps in my savage. Most were pass throughs, somtimes as much as 30" of penetration,w/ big holes and destroyed vital organs. The one recoverd bullet I found(bonded 250) was completely flat and weighed 237grs. |
RE: Shock wave
I use the 300 gr. SST and have never had a problem. Theyhave the hard tips. This year I had a good kill on a spike with good expansion at a distance of about 60 yds. However, I had a problem with a six point buck and a 300 gr. STP. This bullet didn't open up; no expansion at all. The shot was at about 75 to 80 yds.
Interesting report. |
RE: Shock wave
Its all I shoot out of my Encore anymore. From 20-120 yards its been deadly for me. Everyone has there favorites, but for me I don't like to complicate things too much. I have had good luck with others but the Shockwave seems more accurate in my muzzy and it puts them DOWN. I am pretty sure there is something better out there, but I try to live life content and these do it for me when it comes to this.
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RE: Shock wave
Sorry for taking so long to respond. I have a T/C omega and i used a yellow tipped 250g. shockwave with 150g. of triple seven powder.
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RE: Shock wave
From what I've read on this site and others most guys with Omegas are having a hard time with this bullet and the 150 gr powder charges. It ranges in having bullets fragment and having not very good penetration. I personally think that if you use 100 gr charges the bullet will hold up just fine. All my deer have been with this charge and have been bang flops. If you must shoot 150 gr charges then you might try the Barnes bullets as many swear by these bullets and from what I've seen they hold up like no other. The Schockwaves work for me so no need to switch as my guns love em.
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RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: Gotbuck If you must shoot 150 gr charges then you might try the Barnes bullets as many swear by these bullets and from what I've seen they hold up like no other. I also use the300 Barnes MZ in my Omega with 100g of Blackhorn. Very accurate, very reliable killer bullet, shoot thru, great penetration. I don't use the Barnes Origonal in my Omega,because I wanted to shoot anotherBarnes bullet and because I like to experiment with good bullets; got4 packages on sale on theTraditions site in about May for about$9 for 15 Barnes bullets, which is a great deal. Bottom line, Barnes bullets have all 4 of the "MLer Court": King is accuracy Queen is penetration Prince is expansion without fragmentation and Princess is shoot thru with over 90% weight retention. Gotta have all 4 present for the court of MLers to perform, Barnes does this perfect so far in my mind. Noslers do it also. Gold Dots do it also. There are others that do the court and do it well. Chap |
RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: Gotbuck What gun and powder load and bullet weight are you using? I do swear by them and that's all I use and always get a bang flop. same here! Either the 200gr or the 250gr. Sometimes the SG's with 2 - 50gr 777 pellets in the Omega and pistol primers and I almost always get 1/2" - 1 1/2" groups at 100yrds..... the shots outside of the bullseye are PowerBelts..Don't care for them at that price...  |
RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: cayugad I think he recovered the first one, and not the second?? So he has one doe that the bullet fragmented on and the second he is claiming he shot it in the shoulder and it splattered without penetration. He must have been real close on that second deer. I honestly think if all my shots were close, I would he using a 300 grain XTP and let that thing splatter inside and do the deed. |
RE: Shock wave
I have killed 7 deer with 250gr shockwaves backed up by 100gr of powder and all I can say is WOW, every deer I have shot has been dead within 35 yds and left a good blood trail. I will never use anything else in a muzzleloader. I suspect you did not hit the deer in the vitals to start with IMO. I might add I can shoot pretty good at 160yds with this load.
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RE: Shock wave
I have switched to the barnes bullets and shot a doe with one and it was the best bullet i've used so far we found big chunks of bonein the chest cavity from the shoulder.Yes i did hit that deer because we found blood and a chunk of flesh in the fresh snow and then the blood stoped and a week later a buddy saw it walking around fine but had a chunk of flesh missing.
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RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: avengerboy I have switched to the barnes bullets and shot a doe with one and it was the best bullet i've used so far we found big chunks of bonein the chest cavity from the shoulder.Yes i did hit that deer because we found blood and a chunk of flesh in the fresh snow and then the blood stoped and a week later a buddy saw it walking around fine but had a chunk of flesh missing. Chap |
RE: Shock wave
Yes i was the doe were i found bone was the one i shot with the barnes. The other was about the shockwave.
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RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: avengerboy I have switched to the barnes bullets and shot a doe with one and it was the best bullet i've used so far we found big chunks of bonein the chest cavity from the shoulder. Yes i did hit that deer because we found blood and a chunk of flesh in the fresh snow and then the blood stoped and a week later a buddy saw it walking around fine but had a chunk of flesh missing. |
RE: Shock wave
Shot placement is very important for sure. I will not take a questionable shot so I have had great results with the Shockwaves. Sad to see complaints on here.
I shoot 100-105gr triple7. Never had one go more then 40 or 50 yards... and most not even that with this combo.... (knock on wood) |
RE: Shock wave
I shot my first deer w/ a muzzleloader tonight and also a shockwave 250gr powered by 150 gr of 777. The results were great , shot was slightly quartering to bullet entered top of right shoulder took out both lungs and exited mid ribcage off side at approx 20 yds It appears exit hole is roughy 2-to 2-1/2 times the orig diameter which is the .45 b4 sabot I was quite impressed deer dropped immediately gotta love those results and tracking job was even easier
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RE: Shock wave
The deer i shot with the shockwaves was broadside. But earlyer in the season i shot at one and missed but i hit a tree and we found out that the lead was sepparating from the copper jaket when it hit and wasn't providing the knockdown power.
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RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: avengerboy The deer i shot with the shockwaves was broadside. But earlyer in the season i shot at one and missed but i hit a tree and we found out that the lead was sepparating from the copper jaket when it hit and wasn't providing the knockdown power. |
RE: Shock wave
Our muzzle loader season opened last Saturday. All my tags were for antlerless deer.
My load was/is 105g BH209 with Winchester primers and 300g SST which i assume is the same thing as a 300g shockwave. My rifle is an Omega, and stays in the pick up, loaded, for hours days or months. Saturday was warm, and i ended up with two deer. Temperature during the hunt was around 35*. One deer was hit in the chest broadside, and the bullet hit both lungs, clipped the back bone low, and passed through. Of course the deer was immobilized right there and was dead when i arrived after reloading. The second deer was hit in the shoulder; the bullet hit one lung, and made a little dent in the back bone, and stopped. The deer was unable to get up and run, and was dead when i arrived after reloading. Saturday night the weather changed and i think it was -19* here Sunday morning. I went up in the hills and when i left the truck it was -11*. I walked around for about 1 1/2 hour and it seemed as though my face was freezing so i went back to the truck. I was curious to see if the rifle would fire, so i touched 'er off before i got into the truck. At that time it was-5*. Spent the rest of the day, in the warm cabin, driving around; passed up a couple of deer cuz i was too lazy to deal with dressing them in the bitter cold. Monday morning was -19*, and i did not feel like hunting, so i stayed home and worked in the shop. I think Tuesday morning was -14*, but i headed for the hills anyway. Shot a deer broadside through the chest through both lungs, and the bullet passed on through. The deer ran in a straight line for around 100 yd in snow and left a decent blood trail, before it expired. Later in the afternoon it had warmed up to about 20*, and i found deer on a South slope with only patches of snow. Shot one in the chest, and the bullet hit both lungs and passed through. There was little blood to follow, and the deer ran on a contour for 75 yd or so, then went down hill maybe 20 yd, and then abruptly turned up hill and went about 30 yd before it expired. I was unable to find the deer easily, because of the lack of snow and blood, and the zig zag. I nearly gave up hope, and was sad that i couldn't find it, but made one more circle. It took me over an hour to locate the deer doing some painstaking tracking. This morning it was 2*, and i headed for the hills to hunt. Found a deer in it's bed, and shot it through the chest at an angle; the bullet hit both lungs and passed through. There was a peculiar hole in the diaphragm; perhaps made by a rib fragment, or maybe a bullet fragment. The deer was unable to get up, and expired before i reloaded and got there. I think it was the hole in the diaphragm that kept the deer down, but how would i know for sure. It was like a spring day in the hills, and after i drug the deer to a road, and loaded it, i was amazed at the many many deer i saw from the truck, enjoying the sunshine. After my experiences, i personally, don't think the sst-shockwave is the best bullet. It seems to be too hard when it should be softer, and too soft when it should be harder. They are inexpensive though, and i have a lot of them. Tomorrow i plan to shoot some Nosler at paper, and will try one on the next deer i get a shot at. |
RE: Shock wave
i shot the 300gr sst/shockwave over 100gr of triple 7 2f and i have shot over 15 deer with this combo ranging from 15 yards to approx 150 yards and never had a deer go more than 50 yards from where i shot them most were either drt or dropped within sight all exit wounds were larger than the entrance the internals were shredded.never had bullet stay in deer to recover slug but seems like they all did there job,and since all exited i can only assume none fragmented.the only slug i have is one i fired into a section of 4x4 hardwood post approx 24" long at 50yrds.the slug penetrated approx 12-13"into the post lengthwise bullet didnt seperate or fragment retained approx 90% of its weight
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RE: Shock wave
I know it happens sometimes but it amazes me why so many guys like to shoot an animal in the shoulder! One, it causes a good deal of meat damage. Two - you run a higher risk of inadequate bullet penetration (i.e.: this post and several others).
Maybe its the way you were taught when you were young. I've been hunting close to 45 years and have taken a lot of deer and other game with rifle, bow, and ML and I can only recall3 that I did not recover (2 archery - 1 ML). One of the archery shots and the ML shot were shots I never shouuld have taken and I still kick myself for them. Now - I for one never try shoot for the shoulder but just behind it on broadside or quartering away with the bow or ML. With the centerfire, I imagine a basketball setting between the shoulders its vertical centerline up from the rear of the front leg and aim for the center of it. This usually results in a dead right there deer. With the ML, you punch a 50 calbullet behind the shoulder (hitting a rib at worst) you will puncture both lungs and the animal will not go far if anywhere. If you don't see if fall, give it some time, track slowly and carefully and you will recover it. I know a lot of you guys are good hunters and decent shots. So please don't take this as a criticism but think about it and it is up to you to make the shot placement decision. Merry Christmas |
RE: Shock wave
Not unusual for a deer shot thru the lungs to run 100 to 300 yards before expiring. More than enough distance for your trophey buck to get to adjacent private property rendering it unrecoverable.
Shooting a deer in an openbean or cornfield where you can watch it fall after an extended death run is not a luxury all of us have. The area we hunt in has thick cedars and russian olive trees so dense that you have to get on your hands and knees in the mud and crawl to access them. Next to thatis 120acres of CRP grass 5ft tall Compound this by shooting a deer in the late evening and your in for a long night with a good possibility of not finding the deer until the next morning. It'seach individuals decision where to aim at a deer but I almost always choose the high shoulder shot so there is no tracking involved. |
RE: Shock wave
Toot - I respectfully disagree. 100 yds - maybe. But not much more. A well placed lung shot punching a 50 cal hole through both lungs even with the lowly but effective round ball will put most any deer down within 100 yds.
I too hunt the heavy woods and laurel patches of PA. And I am relating my experience fromeasily over 100 deer shot by myself and friends/relation that I've helped recover. Now I will grant you that a poorly placed shot or a single lung hit will increase the distance a deer will go if pushed too quickly. That is why my earlier post stated that if you don't see the animal fall, give it some time before persuing. And track slowly and carefully. |
RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: MagnumMan308 Next yearI will be using something more suited for close range woods hunting, like Barnes Expanders, not a SST/Shockwave. https://secure.tcarms.com/store/index.php/action/item/id/124/prevaction/search/previd//prevstart/0/ Chap  |
RE: Shock wave
I have been having good luck with Hornady XTPs. For the 50 cal I use 300 gr .430" and Harvester Green CR sabots. For the .45 I use the .410" 200 grainers with the Harvester blue EZ load sabots. But where I hunt a 75 yd shot is a long one. I'm sure the Barnes bulletswould bean excellent choice also.
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RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: Beehunter I have killed 7 deer with 250gr shockwaves backed up by 100gr of powder and all I can say is WOW, every deer I have shot has been dead within 35 yds and left a good blood trail. I will never use anything else in a muzzleloader. I suspect you did not hit the deer in the vitals to start with IMO. I might add I can shoot pretty good at 160yds with this load. |
RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: ronlaughlin Our muzzle loader season opened last Saturday. All my tags were for antlerless deer. My load was/is 105g BH209 with Winchester primers and 300g SST which i assume is the same thing as a 300g shockwave. My rifle is an Omega, and stays in the pick up, loaded, for hours days or months. Saturday was warm, and i ended up with two deer. Temperature during the hunt was around 35*. One deer was hit in the chest broadside, and the bullet hit both lungs, clipped the back bone low, and passed through. Of course the deer was immobilized right there and was dead when i arrived after reloading. The second deer was hit in the shoulder; the bullet hit one lung, and made a little dent in the back bone, and stopped. The deer was unable to get up and run, and was dead when i arrived after reloading. Saturday night the weather changed and i think it was -19* here Sunday morning. I went up in the hills and when i left the truck it was -11*. I walked around for about 1 1/2 hour and it seemed as though my face was freezing so i went back to the truck. I was curious to see if the rifle would fire, so i touched 'er off before i got into the truck. At that time it was-5*. Spent the rest of the day, in the warm cabin, driving around; passed up a couple of deer cuz i was too lazy to deal with dressing them in the bitter cold. Monday morning was -19*, and i did not feel like hunting, so i stayed home and worked in the shop. I think Tuesday morning was -14*, but i headed for the hills anyway. Shot a deer broadside through the chest through both lungs, and the bullet passed on through. The deer ran in a straight line for around 100 yd in snow and left a decent blood trail, before it expired. Later in the afternoon it had warmed up to about 20*, and i found deer on a South slope with only patches of snow. Shot one in the chest, and the bullet hit both lungs and passed through. There was little blood to follow, and the deer ran on a contour for 75 yd or so, then went down hill maybe 20 yd, and then abruptly turned up hill and went about 30 yd before it expired. I was unable to find the deer easily, because of the lack of snow and blood, and the zig zag. I nearly gave up hope, and was sad that i couldn't find it, but made one more circle. It took me over an hour to locate the deer doing some painstaking tracking. This morning it was 2*, and i headed for the hills to hunt. Found a deer in it's bed, and shot it through the chest at an angle; the bullet hit both lungs and passed through. There was a peculiar hole in the diaphragm; perhaps made by a rib fragment, or maybe a bullet fragment. The deer was unable to get up, and expired before i reloaded and got there. I think it was the hole in the diaphragm that kept the deer down, but how would i know for sure. It was like a spring day in the hills, and after i drug the deer to a road, and loaded it, i was amazed at the many many deer i saw from the truck, enjoying the sunshine. After my experiences, i personally, don't think the sst-shockwave is the best bullet. It seems to be too hard when it should be softer, and too soft when it should be harder. They are inexpensive though, and i have a lot of them. Tomorrow i plan to shoot some Nosler at paper, and will try one on the next deer i get a shot at.  |
RE: Shock wave
ORIGINAL: turk1270 i shot the 300gr sst/shockwave over 100gr of triple 7 2f and i have shot over 15 deer with this combo ranging from 15 yards to approx 150 yards and never had a deer go more than 50 yards from where i shot them most were either drt or dropped within sight all exit wounds were larger than the entrance the internals were shredded.never had bullet stay in deer to recover slug but seems like they all did there job,and since all exited i can only assume none fragmented.the only slug i have is one i fired into a section of 4x4 hardwood post approx 24" long at 50yrds.the slug penetrated approx 12-13"into the post lengthwise bullet didnt seperate or fragment retained approx 90% of its weight |
RE: Shock wave
chap no the jacket is not thicker actually the jacket in the front might be a little thinner the 300gr is a little longer and has a larger hollow point cavity under the tip i cut the 250 and 300 with a hacksaw
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RE: Shock wave
Chap I have only shot 1 deer w/ muzzloader asI just started this yr w/ 150 gr 777 and a 250gr shockwave at 15 yds slightly quarting to went in right shoulder and exited mid rib cage off side. I couldn't be more pleased in as 45cal out about double that size I did not recover bullet but appears to not have fragmented at all.Why do you think 150gr is too hot a load?These shockwaves had the yellow tip are there shockwaves w/ different color tips that are made different. I am going to do plenty of experimenting this summer at the range w/ different powders and bullets. The accuracy of these shockwaves is amazing 1"-2" groups at 100yd almost hard to try other combos out w/ those results
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