I decided to have some fun with the White .451 Model 97 today. I threw a Bushnell 3200 scope on it and wanted to test some bullets I had purchased. These are from Traditions. They are a 180 grain Barnes Expander in .45 caliber. These all copper Expanders can be pushed hard, so I took some Pyrodex RS and some Triple Se7en 3f.

In the upper left hand corner bull,I shot 70 grains of Triple Se7en 3f with a wad and some 460 grain Bull Shop conicals. I wanted to check the scope to make sure it was on. This was at 50 yards. As expected the White did what it always does with this load.

I then shot 100 grains of Pyrodex RS at the center red tape. I did swab beteen shots and at 50 yards it really had some snap to the gun. The top red circle shows how spread out the hits were. I was kind of surprised they hit so high and all over the place. I was not pleased. But could not figure out why it hit so spread out at 50 yards. I suspected the powder, so I wanted to try something.

So I moved the target up to 25 yards. I then again shot for the red center bull and did swab between shots. They rifle loaded very easy with these sabots that came with the Barnes Expanders. In fact no short starter was needed. So I kind of suspected this might be the problem. Aiming at the red tape in the center it shot agood group, but not as good as I really expected at this distance. I was aiming for the bottom of the tape and not the center. I figured it was hitting high, but it did not hit as high as I thought it would.

I then drew a blue dot on the bottom of the large bull. This time I loaded 110 grains of Pyrodex RS and decided not to swab between shots. Still at 25 yards mind you. The lower red circle shows the group there.

Now I was kind of excited as I did not have to swab between shots. So I decided to shoot some Triple Se7en 3f at this same distance. I loaded 110 grains of the T-7 3f and aimed at the upper right bull. I had swabbed the barrel clean, but did not swab during shooting this group. And actually the one hit that is dead center on that tape is because I adjusted the POA and made it hit there. This 110 grains of 3f T-7 really had some good snap to it when it went off. If I could make sure this was accurate, I would have a good long range deer load with these small expanders.

So I will play some more when I get the new sabots I ordered and I want to see if maybe these sabots need to be pushed REALLY hard. I can always shoot conicals out of the rifle for hunting, but this was interesting to me to play with the new sabots.

The red dots are old hits from the other day when I was shooting.

Dave; Your usual good shooting!!

Actually I am not real happy with it. At 25 yards there should be a ragged hole. I ordered some other sabots and I will see if they make a difference. I'd hate to have to buy a .45 caliber inline rifle just to shoot off some bullets...

Remember those Whites like them conicals!!

Dave what is the rate of twist on that .451 White. I tried to shoot 180 grain Gold Dots from a couple of 50 cals and really never could get them to group well for me. I tried them because they were gold dots and I thought they might be a tougher bullet than the 200 XTP. My speculation has been they are just to short for the 1/24-28 twist - just my specualtion...

I can not remember what everybody settled on as being the best rate of twist for a 45 - I know for awhile they were having a heck of a time getting 45's to group out of some rifles.

The Bull Shops look pretty good though...

I really am not sure of the twist. It shoots conicals fine. No problem there. I guess I will have to get a .45 caliber to shoot the rest of the bullets out of...

cayugad

Guess that is as good excuse as any to get a new gun...I might try to run UC down and see what he says about the twist of the M97 .451 - I would really be curious. I did shoot some of the 180's out of a 1/48 Renegade and they did really well there...

sabotloader
My 1-38 twist System One really likes them too. Lee

I too tried the 180g Gold Dots and couldn't get them to group at all. I think they might be too short-but I by no means and a balistics expert.

I know the Whites shoot sabots but it just kinda seems wrong to not shoot conicals out of them.

Sabotloader the White .451 has a 1 in 20" twist.