Dave what is the rate of twist on that .451 White. I tried to shoot 180 grain Gold Dots from a couple of 50 cals and really never could get them to group well for me. I tried them because they were gold dots and I thought they might be a tougher bullet than the 200 XTP. My speculation has been they are just to short for the 1/24-28 twist - just my specualtion...

I can not remember what everybody settled on as being the best rate of twist for a 45 - I know for awhile they were having a heck of a time getting 45's to group out of some rifles.

The Bull Shops look pretty good though...