I defer to more knowledgable people
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
I defer to more knowledgable people
I have myself a bit of a quandry. As you may know I plan on using my Omega for moose again this fall. In the past 2 years I have used 110 2f T7 and a 300 gr .451 Nosler Partition HG bullet but haven't had a chance to squeeze the trigger on a moose. My Omega also shoots Precision Rifle Dead Centers 340 gr w/ 110 gr 2f T7 very well. So here's my problem;
The 300 gr NP producesin foot pounds energy;
2017@50yd, 1660@100yd, 1362@150yd and 1127@200yd
The PR DC's 340 gr produces in foot pounds energy;
2191@50yd, 1906@100yd, 1655@150yd and 1440@200yd
Should I go with the smaller but better constructed bullet or with the smackdown of the heavier lead bullet?
The 300 gr NP producesin foot pounds energy;
2017@50yd, 1660@100yd, 1362@150yd and 1127@200yd
The PR DC's 340 gr produces in foot pounds energy;
2191@50yd, 1906@100yd, 1655@150yd and 1440@200yd
Should I go with the smaller but better constructed bullet or with the smackdown of the heavier lead bullet?
#2
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
I once read that Jim Shockey ... a well know sports writer hunted all the large game animals for years with a Knight Rifle (I believe it was a disc rifle). If I remember from my reading,his load was 100 grains of Pyrodex RS and a 300 grain Nosler Partition. With that load he took moose, all the great bears, elk, sheep, etc.
Sabotloader has shown the knock down power of the Nosler bullet. I have not shot an animal with the Nosler yet, but I can also state.. they are one of the most accurate bullets I have ever shot.
Now the Dead Center I am sure is a good bullet. Is this a pure lead bullet? If it is, you have to take into consideration how well this bullet will expand, and hold together. We know from photos and in the field experience how the Nosler is known for its ability to stay together and mushroom perfect.
Also you need to consider how the accuracy of each is. I do not think that 40 grains in bullet weight would make me lean the other way. I would look at accuracy, bullet construction, expansion ability, and penetration ability. Also I some times see numbers posted of what a bullet will do, and kind of hate to base any decision on that fully. Personally I would go with the Nosler...
Sabotloader has shown the knock down power of the Nosler bullet. I have not shot an animal with the Nosler yet, but I can also state.. they are one of the most accurate bullets I have ever shot.
Now the Dead Center I am sure is a good bullet. Is this a pure lead bullet? If it is, you have to take into consideration how well this bullet will expand, and hold together. We know from photos and in the field experience how the Nosler is known for its ability to stay together and mushroom perfect.
Also you need to consider how the accuracy of each is. I do not think that 40 grains in bullet weight would make me lean the other way. I would look at accuracy, bullet construction, expansion ability, and penetration ability. Also I some times see numbers posted of what a bullet will do, and kind of hate to base any decision on that fully. Personally I would go with the Nosler...
#3
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
Thanks for your thoughts Dave.
Yes the PR is a solid lead bullet. Not jacketed.
I once did a bullet test with the Partitions and the PR plus a few other bullet types. It was the same test the Chapman didshooting into a bucket of tamped black earth length ways. The PR passed through the bucket and lodged in a 2x6 I had behind it. It expanded to about 1" dia.
The Nosler, on the other hand, passed through the bucket and the 2x6!
Both shoot extremely well in the Omega.
Yes the PR is a solid lead bullet. Not jacketed.
I once did a bullet test with the Partitions and the PR plus a few other bullet types. It was the same test the Chapman didshooting into a bucket of tamped black earth length ways. The PR passed through the bucket and lodged in a 2x6 I had behind it. It expanded to about 1" dia.
The Nosler, on the other hand, passed through the bucket and the 2x6!
Both shoot extremely well in the Omega.
#4
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
I do not know where you are getting your numbers from,but if you are using the B.C. from PR Bullet,beware. Their numbers are inflated. The Nosler is a proven game stopper for many years. The Dead center is a good bullet (all lead),but IMO not as proven as Nosler.
Charlie
Charlie
#5
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
ORIGINAL: Chasam60
I do not know where you are getting your numbers from,but if you are using the B.C. from PR Bullet,beware. Their numbers are inflated. The Nosler is a proven game stopper for many years. The Dead center is a good bullet (all lead),but IMO not as proven as Nosler.
Charlie
I do not know where you are getting your numbers from,but if you are using the B.C. from PR Bullet,beware. Their numbers are inflated. The Nosler is a proven game stopper for many years. The Dead center is a good bullet (all lead),but IMO not as proven as Nosler.
Charlie
Manufacturer numbers and individual numbers are bound to vary due to different conditions, ie temp, elevation, types of firearms used, primers, publishing hype, etc etc.
PR's numbers are in FPE: 2190@50 yd, 1971@100yd, 1775@150yd and 1598@200yds
#6
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
HuntAway
I would like to give you my 2 cents but everybody already has..
The 300 grain Nosler is a much tougher bullet than the 340 all lead bullet. Not that the 340 would not do the job, because I think it would... but if I am going to shoot an all lead bullet at a thick skinned animal like a moose or elk or big bear - it would have to be bigger than 340...
I guess the key or me is in the sentence above.... "I THINK" vs "I know"
I feel the the Nosler gives you a larger room for vatibles and errors that the PR bullet might not let you get away with.
Wish I had you problem - no not the problem but the ability to hunt a moose....
Good Luck...
I would like to give you my 2 cents but everybody already has..
The 300 grain Nosler is a much tougher bullet than the 340 all lead bullet. Not that the 340 would not do the job, because I think it would... but if I am going to shoot an all lead bullet at a thick skinned animal like a moose or elk or big bear - it would have to be bigger than 340...
I guess the key or me is in the sentence above.... "I THINK" vs "I know"
I feel the the Nosler gives you a larger room for vatibles and errors that the PR bullet might not let you get away with.
Wish I had you problem - no not the problem but the ability to hunt a moose....
Good Luck...
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
ORIGINAL: HuntAway
Thanks for your thoughts Dave.
Yes the PR is a solid lead bullet. Not jacketed.
I once did a bullet test with the Partitions and the PR plus a few other bullet types. It was the same test the Chapman didshooting into a bucket of tamped black earth length ways. The PR passed through the bucket and lodged in a 2x6 I had behind it. It expanded to about 1" dia.
The Nosler, on the other hand, passed through the bucket and the 2x6!
Both shoot extremely well in the Omega.
Thanks for your thoughts Dave.
Yes the PR is a solid lead bullet. Not jacketed.
I once did a bullet test with the Partitions and the PR plus a few other bullet types. It was the same test the Chapman didshooting into a bucket of tamped black earth length ways. The PR passed through the bucket and lodged in a 2x6 I had behind it. It expanded to about 1" dia.
The Nosler, on the other hand, passed through the bucket and the 2x6!
Both shoot extremely well in the Omega.
Terminal performance of the Nosler is proven with over 50 years of great hunting performance, the Dead Centers don't have that proven track record.
Go with the Noslers, they are the better Terminal Performance bullet. Chap Gleason
#8
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
I'll be honest with you, the Nosler's were my first choice as I have had them down the spout for the last two years in my pursuit of moose. I guess I just needed some confirmation on them. It's horrible when you have two totally different kinds of bullets that shoot extremely well out of one rifle and on "paper" one is head and shoulders above the other in FPE.
The problem with moose hunting in Ontario is that you hunt as a group and share the tag. It is not uncommon for a guy to go 10-20 years without shooting a moose, but the group has been successfull none-the-less.
The problem with moose hunting in Ontario is that you hunt as a group and share the tag. It is not uncommon for a guy to go 10-20 years without shooting a moose, but the group has been successfull none-the-less.
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kerrville, Tx. USA
Posts: 2,722
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
You also didn't say how far your shot were likely to be. If they were not much over 100 yards, a bigger conical (such as the 460 grain No Excuses bullet) would also be a good choice.
If you compared the nosler to the NE, then you have a real delima.
And as far as comparing energy, I firmly believe that foot lbs don't give muzzleloading bullets their fair share. Here is another way to look at "knockdown": http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/July02.htm
All this is great paper exercising and fun, but you current load with the NP is a great load. At this point I wouldn't mess with a known successful formula.
Good luck!
If you compared the nosler to the NE, then you have a real delima.
And as far as comparing energy, I firmly believe that foot lbs don't give muzzleloading bullets their fair share. Here is another way to look at "knockdown": http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/July02.htm
All this is great paper exercising and fun, but you current load with the NP is a great load. At this point I wouldn't mess with a known successful formula.
Good luck!
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: I defer to more knowledgable people
ORIGINAL: HuntAway
I'll be honest with you, the Nosler's were my first choice as I have had them down the spout for the last two years in my pursuit of moose. I guess I just needed some confirmation on them. It's horrible when you have two totally different kinds of bullets that shoot extremely well out of one rifle and on "paper" one is head and shoulders above the other in FPE.
The problem with moose hunting in Ontario is that you hunt as a group and share the tag. It is not uncommon for a guy to go 10-20 years without shooting a moose, but the group has been successfull none-the-less.
I'll be honest with you, the Nosler's were my first choice as I have had them down the spout for the last two years in my pursuit of moose. I guess I just needed some confirmation on them. It's horrible when you have two totally different kinds of bullets that shoot extremely well out of one rifle and on "paper" one is head and shoulders above the other in FPE.
The problem with moose hunting in Ontario is that you hunt as a group and share the tag. It is not uncommon for a guy to go 10-20 years without shooting a moose, but the group has been successfull none-the-less.