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what bullet do u use

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what bullet do u use

Old 07-24-2008, 05:16 AM
  #11  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: what bullet do u use

ORIGINAL: gt2003

I changed to the precision rifle dead centers a few years back and doubt I'll ever shoot another bullet. They are very accurate out of my knight wolverine and their performance on game is unbelievable. I used to shoot the hornady XTP's. They shot great for me but failed to perform on game animals. Here's a picture of a couple of the dead centersrecovered from deer.

These bullets are fully pancaked out, consider this article on Terminal Sectional
Density:

http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/July03/july03.htm






Chap Gleason
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:53 AM
  #12  
 
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A pancake bullet that measured OVER an inch in diameter is going to leave one huge hole in the animals body cavity and one hell of a blood trail. Pancakes are what i look for.

I'd take that "poor" performing pancake any day over a bullet that does not expand.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:31 AM
  #13  
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Ok, let me tell you about the 2 bullets.

The one on the left was shot into a deer at about 30 yards. It traveled all the way through the deer and was recovered just under the skin on the far side. The dimensions of the mushroom are 5/8 inch x 3/4 inch as measured across the mushroom. If you measure the height of the bullet after it mushroomed, it is 3/8 inch tall. Originally, the bullet was 3/4 inch tall not including the polymer tip. So, basically the bullet is now 1/2 the height it was originally and it still has a good bit of its base left. And, this was only at 30 yards. I would expect less of a mushroom if this bullet was shot at 75-100 yards.

Now, bullet 2 is a whole different story. I was facing north and this buck and doe snuck in directly underneath me from the south/southwest. This was the 1st deer I had ever shot with this bullet and was trying to "get the monkey off my back" as far as bad ML luck/performance. So, I shot him, probably at 20 feet. The amazing this is, although the mushroom is huge, 1 inch, the bullet held together and didn't fragment. It too was recovered under the skin opposite of where it entered. Impressive performance in my opinion.

Just thought some clarification might help. Thanks, Greg
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:35 AM
  #14  
 
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I recovered some 340g cheap shots from my sand trap yesterday and with 75g pyro P they held up very nicely. This was at 100 yards. At 50 yards, they fragmented. I'll post some pics of the cheap shots later on.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:54 PM
  #15  
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Default RE: what bullet do u use

ORIGINAL: gt2003

Ok, let me tell you about the 2 bullets.

The one on the left was shot into a deer at about 30 yards. It traveled all the way through the deer and was recovered just under the skin on the far side. The dimensions of the mushroom are 5/8 inch x 3/4 inch as measured across the mushroom. If you measure the height of the bullet after it mushroomed, it is 3/8 inch tall. Originally, the bullet was 3/4 inch tall not including the polymer tip. So, basically the bullet is now 1/2 the height it was originally and it still has a good bit of its base left. And, this was only at 30 yards. I would expect less of a mushroom if this bullet was shot at 75-100 yards.

Now, bullet 2 is a whole different story. I was facing north and this buck and doe snuck in directly underneath me from the south/southwest. This was the 1st deer I had ever shot with this bullet and was trying to "get the monkey off my back" as far as bad ML luck/performance. So, I shot him, probably at 20 feet. The amazing this is, although the mushroom is huge, 1 inch, the bullet held together and didn't fragment. It too was recovered under the skin opposite of where it entered. Impressive performance in my opinion.

Just thought some clarification might help. Thanks, Greg
It sounds like you got adequate penetration (>12"), but would the bullet have fragmented on hitting bone? I know the XTPs do, I am not sure about the Dead Centers. They are all lead, so they are soft, but maybe the wrap around themselves. Weight retention keeps penetration going the big mushroom is good for initial expansion, but all the enery was used pancaking the bullet instead of penetration thru the animal. Most "balanced bullets" have long shanks. Craig Boddington calls long shanks and perfect mushrooms "a thing of beauty" (May 2008 of Peterson's Hunting--Tipped and Bonded was the article) as do several other gun writers. Now he shoots a solid as his second shot for Cape bullalo, but an expanding bullet for his first. Folllowing that logic and apply i tto ML bullets we conclude "hard casts" shoot thru leaving little hole with not a lot of tissue damage. Pancake bullet expend all their energy mushrooming the bullet. Perfect bullet is like Nosler Partition or Barnes with the 6 expanded petals, perfect mushroom, long shank for weight retention and driving forward. Yawing or going sideways in the deer is also a no no, no penetration.

Those were very close shot but would would expect a shoot thru at that range. Actually that is desireable, not "all the energy in the animal".
Chap
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:32 PM
  #16  
Fork Horn
 
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Default RE: what bullet do u use

I use pure lead conicals in my muzzy's. They expand well and I have never recovered one. The blood trails are short and easy to follow.

In my Knights I use No Excuse 460gr conical
In my Whites I use Bats 496gr Trashcan or Bullshop 460gr. I even have a 620gr Bullshop for these rifles. I don't use the 620's for hunting.
In my Lyman GPH I use the Bullshop 460gr bullet.

I have also used the Buffalo Bullet SSB in 375grains (saboted bullet). 3 out of 5 deer dropped on the spot the other 2 did not go far. Recovered 3 of the bullets. They did fragment quite abit, but hey they worked pretty darn good IMO.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:07 PM
  #17  
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ORIGINAL: Nimrodder

I use pure lead conicals in my muzzy's. They expand well and I have never recovered one. The blood trails are short and easy to follow.

In my Knights I use No Excuse 460gr conical
In my Whites I use Bats 496gr Trashcan or Bullshop 460gr. I even have a 620gr Bullshop for these rifles. I don't use the 620's for hunting.
In my Lyman GPH I use the Bullshop 460gr bullet.

I have also used the Buffalo Bullet SSB in 375grains (saboted bullet). 3 out of 5 deer dropped on the spot the other 2 did not go far. Recovered 3 of the bullets. They did fragment quite abit, but hey they worked pretty darn good IMO.
Your not shooting them about 1900 to 2000 fps, I will be your shooting them 1200. "Big and Slow is the way to do" is what Bryce Towsley says. Can't disagree, if they don't fragment and penetrate deeply. Chap
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:09 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: what bullet do u use

I think the performance you got with the Dead Centers looks great. I know there are different schools of thought on what a bullet should do when it hits a game animal, but I think that people may agree more if we decide what kind of animal we're shooting at. I think Dead Centers (and similar designs) are great for thin-skinned game like deer & antelope. You don't need to shoot 24" through heavy bone to take down these creatures. I prefer a bullet that expands quickly and penetrates adequately to reach and destroy the vital organs. If it exits the other side, that is an added bonus, but I don't think it's strictly necessary. The full penetration does usually leave a better blood trail, but if the hunter puts the bullet in the right place, it expands, penetrates and shreds vital organs, most of the time the deer isn't going to go far. Most of the time they will drop where they stand or maybe run 30 - 50 yards.

Now if we're talking about larger or dangerous game, things change a lot. With elk/moose/bear size game, you want a tougher bullet that will penetrate a great deal more and not fragment when hitting bone. So I would agree with Chap for anything larger than deer size, but for thin-skinned animals, I think Dead Centers & similar designs do quite well.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:22 PM
  #19  
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Chap, my conical loads are about 1200-1300 fps. I only use 70-80gr of Swiss 3f. I used 110 T7 2F with the SSB. If I shot them today I'd probably back the charge down to 80 or 90 grains and see what kind of accuracy I got.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:35 PM
  #20  
 
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A pancaked bullet weighs the same for me as a brand new one. Can show you on a scale if you would like to see?

Full weight retention. You've seen the 225 powerbelt that was driven by 80g 3F triple 7 and went through the shoulder and then exited out the actual shoulder bone before coming to rest under the hide.

Can't complain about that IMO!
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