RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

geez, I was think of trying the 45cal plats out of the 45cal apex I got off FG. man, what carnage

RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

Well lets see, I know people in colorado put in for high points draw which could take 10+ years to draw in that unit which have Huge 30"+ bucks, weighing 200+ lbs, so yeah, Pick the bullet for the game you'll be huntin. He's just giving examples for the powder charge/ bullet weight for certain ranges.

RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

Hey Corey, Dont use the 300g platinums! :D:D I havent even seen a centerfire do that.

RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

maybe some of those big bores. my bother in laws (the one I hunt with) 44mag marlin had an enter like those but it did not exit

RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

I will say this, the last time I shot an elk with a flat nosed powerbelt, it was a 444 54 caliber copper covered. The bullet went through the chest, through the middle of the heart and out the other side. Did not hit any bones. The hole going in measured 0.5 inches and the hole going out measured 0.5 inches. Back then, it seemed like the complaints were that they didn't open up on game, thus the addition of the hollow points, etc. However, the bull I shot went exactly 1 yard, so the bullet did its job. You knock a 1/2 inch hole in an animal, and you are going to do some damage, expansion or not.

There are places for each, but the bottom line is that they are a bullet better not pushed too hard and the platinum may be the best compromise.

RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

Lane,

Thats some impressive performance! Congrats on all the fine deer harvested.

Even though the PB company rep. says that they try and inform people to use lower powder charges with PB's, I don't think they stress it enough. On the package of 225 grain .45's that I bought, there were 2 large ballistics charts - one for 100 grains of powder, one for 150 grains.

Then in smaller print they had the "recommended" loads listed (i.e. 70 - 100 grains) for most projectiles. They really should have the 100 grains listed as the "max recommended load" and put in bold somewhere that for most weights of PB's the ideal load is 60 - 80 grains of powder. I haven't shot a deer with a PB, but I have no doubt that they work just fine when used properly. I just don't shoot them because they are pricey and because I haven't been able to get them to group as well as SST's and XTP's in my gun.

RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

Amen. Well said.
</Opinion>
Nosler Partition, Speer Gold Dot, Barnes Origonals,TMZ, MZ, SpitFire, TSX 45843 cankill at >>any<< angle (oblique ok), at any distance from 0 to 200 yards (20 yards OK), high shoulder or behind the shoulder without fragmenting and without thinking about will this kill the deer. Cost is about the same as PowerBelt. Justfind the right sabot to load in your gun with one of these bullets. Hint a Crushed Rib black sabot .452 works in my Omega, my Knight with Nosler. Works in my Savage with Barnes .458 rifle bullets like Barnes Origonal and TSX 45843 Flat Nose rfile bullets. MMP 3petal EZ work in my Savage also.
</end Opinion>
Best Wishes, Chap

RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

Amen.

RE: Powerbelt Wants your emails
 

Morning everyone, Dan just sent me some more Info.

GAME, SET, MATCH

Know your game
Set your limits
Match the bullet to the game and limits

Step one; Match the bullet to the game.

We need to look at the ‘Momentum Value’ and what roll this plays in our bullet choice. (See the Kevin “Doctari” Robertson book, ‘The Perfect Shot, African Big Game’, Page 12) Here is the formula for pounds / feet per second.
BULLET WEIGHT IN GRAINS x VELOCITY IN FPS / 7,000

Wt x fps / 7,000
Let’s look at few different bullets.
Momentum Value
.45 cal. 175 gr. x 2,469 fps / 7,000 = 61
.45 cal. 275 gr. x 2,111 fps / 7,000 = 82
.50 cal. 530 gr. x 1,350 fps / 7,000 = 102

Now what about a couple of our .50 cal. Power Belt bullets.
Momentum Value
223 gr. x 2,321 fps / 7,000 = 73
245 gr. x 2,268 fps / 7,000 = 79
444 gr. x 1,330 fps / 7,000 = 84

If you were to push the big bullet faster it would dominate even more. A big heavy bullet will out perform a little light bullet in every category…except trajectory, and this, unfortunately, is the one chart that everyone wants to look at. Ballistics are much more than just the drop in the bullet at 200 yards. There is the energy to consider, the accuracy, the bullet expansion, the penetration, shock and trauma. The general idea is that the bigger the game the bigger the bullet. A .50 cal. 245 gr. A.T. is great on Deer but is absolutely out of its league when it comes to Elk, same with the .45 cal. 225 gr. A.T.
For many hunters that have spent years shooting their .30-06 rifles with a 180 gr. bullet a 245 gr. seems huge, it’s not. In a .50 cal. big doesn’t start until you get over 300 gains. Consider that a .50 cal. round ball is between 178 and 180 grains with a ballistic coefficient of about .90 and the .30 cal 180 gr. has a B.C. of .300 to 540, depending on the design, they are worlds apart. Big game, big bullet.
For Elk and Moose I recommend the .45 cal. 275 gr. A.T. and the 300 gr. Platinum and in the .50 cal. the 338 gr. Platinum, with a magnum load or the 444 gr. Flat Point Copper with 100 to 150 grains.
For big Deer I recommend the .45 cal. 223 gr. Platinum and the 225 gr. A.T. and in the .50 cal. I recommend the 270 gr. Platinum the 295 gr. and the 300 gr. Platinum.

Now for the set.

Have you SET limits on how far you are going to shoot? Have you SET standards on what is and what is not a ‘good’ shot to take? You need to SET your limits in order to choose the right bullet. For example, if you’re going to be shooting Deer at 130 yards or less then the .50 cal. 245 gr. A.T. or the 295 gr. H.P. are a great choice. Both of these bullets will give you excellent accuracy, expansion and penetration from 30 to 130 yards and a 100 grain charge is all that is needed for optimum results. (Pelletized Powder or the equivalent).
If you want the option of taking that long shot out to 200 yards but might have an opportunity at the 30 yard range then the 270 and 300gr. Platinum were designed for just this reason. The tip design gives these bullets a better B.C. than the regular Power Belts so that they retain more energy down range and it also controls the expansion at close ranges.
We get calls from hunters that love the 245 gr. for deer but then try and take a 300 lbs Hog with the same set up. Not good. A 120 lb Deer is in no way shape or form even close to a 300 lb Hog or even a 200 lb Hog. Hogs are tough, thick skinned and tenacious. The 245 gr. is not the bullet to go after Hogs with. In fact I like the 348 gr. or bigger for the mean things, and if your talking an ugly beast of over 300 lbs then the 338 gr. Platinum with a heavy charge or the 444 gr. FPC are the one to go with. It is showing very little respect for the game to try and harvest a big animal with a little bullet just for the sake of convenience.
In the same way it is poor judgment to sight your rifle in ‘dead on’ at 100 yards and then try to make a clean shot on that big Buck at 200 yards when you haven’t even taken one shot at the range at that distance! ‘Bad Form’, as Capitan Hook would say. If you think you ‘might’ take a long shot then by all means go to the range and SHOOT at that distance! Know where your rifle shoots by shooting it and not by reading ballistic charts. Every gun has a personality of its own, every gun is different, every gun has likes and dislikes when it comes to powder, bullet and primer combinations. Not to mention clean bore and fouled bore performance, but that’s another subject. SET your limits and stay with them.

MATCH the bullet to the game.

We have already covered this above to some degree because all three are so closely tied together but let’s MATCH up a few more bullets to game scenarios.
BEARS. Bears are tough and a wounded Bear can cover the ground like nothing else. Shock, Trauma and Penetration through the vitals is what works to put one down. Now even though they are ‘tough’ they have a relatively thin hide but it’s their muscle mass that is what can restrict penetration. Again the same rule applies here as to any Game, the bigger the Bear the bigger the bullet. Our 444 gr. FPC has taken a number of Large grizzlies and at least 2 Kodiak Bear with superb results. It each case this bullet delivered all three qualities that dispatched the animals quickly and humanely. The only other bullet I would recommend for the Big Bears is the 338 gr. Platinum with a magnum load, or the .45 cal. 300 gr. Platinum with a magnum load. When I say Big Bears I am talking any thing above 400 lbs. When it comes to Bears that are going to weigh in under the 400 lbs mark then I am comfortable with a little lighter bullet say the 348 gr. or the .45 cal. 275 gr.

ANTELOPE. Most hunters are going to want something that will shoot flat and hit hard. The .45 cal. 223 gr. Platinum with a magnum load is and excellent choice, the 195 gr. will work but I prefer the heavier bullet, it carries more energy at the long ranges and the drop in trajectory is not that much more. For the .50 I recommend the 270 gr. Platinum, as with the above mention 223 the 270 will carry more energy than the 245 gr. and shoot flatter than the 295 gr. with plenty of energy to do the job clean and quick.

MOOSE are the same as Elk, big Game Big bullet. .45 cal. 300 gr. Platinum or the 275 gr. A.T. platinum or the .50 cal. 338 gr. Platinum with a magnum load or the 444 gr. with the 100 grain charge. Because the 338 grain is lighter we need to crank it up to produce the same energies as the big 444 gr.

SMALL DEER that go between 80 and 120 lbs can be hunted with a wide range of bullets from the .45 cal. 175 gr. to the 225 gr. H.P. and in the .50 cal. everything from the 223 A.T. gr. to the 295 gr. H.P., although I would prefer the 195 gr. A.T. to the 175 gr. When going with a bigger bullet on smaller game it is better to use the Hollow Point to allow the bullet to expand on impact and create a large wound channel through the animal, the lighter bullets are traveling faster and will expand easier and we need the Aero Tip to control that expansion. The Hollow Point will expand on contact creating a lot of shock and Trauma while the Aero Tip will push in and then mushroom retaining more bullet weight. This is why I would suggest a 245 gr. A.T. and the 295 gr. H.P. for many of the same applications. You will see similar results on Deer size Game.

DEER from 120 to 180 lbs. I recommend the .45 cal. 223 gr. Platinum the 225 gr. A.T. or possibly the 275 gr. H.P. or the .50 cal. 245 gr. A.T., 270 gr. Platinum, 295 gr. H.P. and possibly the 348 gr. H.P.

BIG DEER that go 200 plus lbs I would recommend the .45 cal. 223 gr. Platinum, 225 gr. A.T., both with a magnum load, or the 275 gr. H.P. or the .50 cal. 295 gr. A.T., 270 gr. Platinum or 300 gr. Platinum both with magnum loads or the 348 gr. H.P.

ELK, Bull or Cow, we recommend the 338 gr. Platinum with a magnum load, if your rifle is magnum capable. In Colorado you have to use LOOSE powder and so I recommend 120 grains of Triple 7 Loose with the 338 gr. Platinum. 150 grains of Pyrodex or 150 grains of American Pioneer (or any other equivalent powder) will work but I prefer the Triple 7 because it is hotter and the Platinum performs great with this hot Loose Powder. Remember that 120 grains of T-7 Loose is equal to 150 grains of Pyrodex.
The .45 cal. 275 gr. A.T. or the 300 gr. Platinum are great choices with Magnum loads if the state you are hunting in allows .45 calibers to be used in the Elk season, check the Regulations.

BISON (BUFFALO), same as Elk.
ELAND, KUDU, WATER BUCK, and WART HOGS all the same as Elk.

CAPE BUFFALO AND ELEPHANT are in a league of their own and require the use of the Steel Tip Dangerous Game Bullet. Now with these bullets the hotter the load the deeper the penetration, they are a non expanding bullet designed to penetrate the tough thick hide and bones of the largest, meanest animals on earth and they work quite well. Unfortunately we no longer manufacture these bullets, the cost of producing them was very high and therefore the cost on the shelf was very high also, and as you might well imagine, we didn’t sell very many.

The above suggestions are things to think about before heading to the store or heading out into the field. I would urge each and every hunter to show respect for the game they intend to harvest by putting some time, effort and thought into what they are going to use in the field. Know the GAME you are hunting, SET your limitations and stand by them, MATCH the bullet to the Game, and last but certainly not least, go to the range and shoot. Get familiar with your rifle and know where it is shooting at the distances you are going to be hunting.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
Dan Hall
6-27-07

OOPS!! CORRECTION! My bad :)
 

I apologize,

I was checking my notes, and that Buck shot with the 45cal 300g Platinum PB.... Was actually shot with 120g Pinnacle[&:]at 50 yards!

I was shooting 200g Shockwaves with 120g Pinnacleand shot a doe, I then did a quick Reloadwith the same 120g Pinn loadand a 300g Plat PB[8D]. 20min later the buck showed, and I shot him too.

So those pics show what NOT to do with powerbeltS[&:]:)