Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Firearms Forum > Black Powder
 Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data >

Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

Black Powder Ask opinions of other hunters on new technology, gear, and the methods of blackpowder hunting.

Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

Old 10-31-2007, 04:33 AM
  #11  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

ORIGINAL: Semisane

The last chart on this page has some good round ball data.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/TraditionalBallistics.html

It sure makes you question the viability of even a .54 caliber PRB at 100 yards with energy of less than 600 ft. lbs.
If you use a PRB then the shot has to be a "broadside bow shot" < 50 to 70 yards in my opinion. The penetration is there with these projectiles but the mass is missing. I now shoot Speer Gold Dots in my TC Hawken 1:48 twist, with crushed rib sabot and limit my shots to 50 yards. I would like to get a Renegade Stock and buy a 1:28 Green Mountain Barrel for FL hunting. It is really about shot placement with just about any projectile, however some bullets allow for poor placement by going thru bone and tough stuff to get into the vitals. I think the heavier PRB can do that, the .45 can't from my experience in shooting a .45 cal FL for a while. I like the .54with a PRB, much more energy.
Chap Gleason
gleason.chapman is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 06:10 AM
  #12  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,607
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
I think the heavier PRB can do that, the .45 can't from my experience in shooting a .45 cal FL for a while. I like the .54with a PRB, much more energy.
Chap Gleason
[/quote]

Yeah I agree that bigger is better in this scenario however, my .45 has brought down a lot of deer. Did have to track them though-but never did lose one. That was my first ML so at that time I didn't have a choice, now that I own others its not the first one I pick out to take deer huntin'(Now it's my fall turkey gun)

Just a side thought, I wonder where the idea of a PRB isn't effective came from? When I first got into ML that was the only thing people used now people speak as if you're better off w/a creek rock. Not that it makes any difference to me just curious...
TNHagies is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 08:33 AM
  #13  
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
 
Semisane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,918
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

Just a side thought, I wonder where the idea of a PRB isn't effective came from? When I first got into ML that was the only thing people used now people speak as if you're better off w/a creek rock. Not that it makes any difference to me just curious...
I think it's just a matter of prespective. When I first got into muzzle loading in the early '60's patched balls and black powderwere about all we knew. Wouldn't even have considered a shot beyond 50 yards. Thought RB's were real killers.

As ML technology progressed, first with heavy conicals which extended effective range - then with sabbotted jacketed bullets which extended it even more, what is considered "ML range" has increased greatly. So, with current state of affairs being that 150 yards is considered by most to be a perfectly doable ML shot, round balls pale by comparison. Those who hunt with PRB's and know their limitations, know where and how to place the shot, and have the tracking skills necessary, balls are still viable. For the average Joe who shoots a ML a few times before the season to sight in, then hunts, PRB's are not the best choice.
Semisane is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 08:45 AM
  #14  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

Semisane,For normal deer range [most deer a taken under 50yds] I am not so sure about that I used my long barreled 54 for over 25 years and never lost a deer and in some ways I think its more dependable than inlines because its a sealed system. Lee
lemoyne is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 09:25 AM
  #15  
Giant Nontypical
 
eldeguello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

ORIGINAL: Semisane

The last chart on this page has some good round ball data.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/TraditionalBallistics.html

It sure makes you question the viability of even a .54 caliber PRB at 100 yards with energy of less than 600 ft. lbs.
I don't consider foot-pounds of energy figures to bea reliable predictor of the killing power of a large-caliber, pure lead projectile such as a 54-caliber round ball. If it were, I would agree with you that 600 foot-pounds sounds puny compared to the kinetic energy developed by modern rifles. However, if you look at the energy figures for some small-caliber, high velocity projectiles, you might get the impression that, say, a .223 Remington with a 55-grain bullet would kill betterthan that .54 RB at 100 yards, when the exact opposite isactually thecase.

Many people maintain that killing power is proportional to the amount of energy "dumped" in the critter, when actually,killing powercomes from the amount of vital organ damage a bullet does. That's why bullet placement is so critical, regardless of the actual kinetic energy carried by a bullet. Therefore, a large, soft-lead round ball only requirtes sufficient velocity on impact to penetrate to, and through, the vital organ(s) in order to kill game regardless of size. Round balls of .54 caliber or larger have been proven to do this reliably, even on game as big and mean as grizzly bears.
eldeguello is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 10:46 AM
  #16  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

Those charts don't explain why when the Longhunter Society came out that the world record grizzly was killed with a .54 Hawken style with 120grs FF goex...
Range was 100 yards, ball was found under the hide on the off side, lung shot...Bear ran 80 yards and piled up....
nchawkeye is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 11:29 AM
  #17  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Little Chute, WI
Posts: 143
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

A well sharpened broadhead at 400 fps had little energy but is an effective killer.
ORIGINAL: Semisane

Of course that's only part of the equation. A 200 grain solid steel 30 caliber spitzer at 1900 fps has tons of energy but would not be an effective deer killer. A well sharpened broadhead at 400 fps had little energy but is an effective killer.

400FPS? I don't think any bows are shooting this fast. Hunting bows shooting 300 fps are incredible. I know my bow set up for target shooting will sling them around 325-330 FPS. My heavier hunting arrows shoot 281 FPS with right around 80 ft.lbs. of K.E. 80 K.E. on a bow is very good for this day and age. I'm sure recurves and long bows are much lower than my high end bow and they kill deer too.

I'm not sure where the 800 ft.lbs. came from but I'm sure they were referring to a bullet size or grain weight. Obviously a 450 grain(im guessing) .54 cal. round ball hits pretty hard. Compared to a rifle projectile. If you shoot a 130 grain .270 bullet with 600 ft.lbs. of K.E. it probably won't be a killer like the .54 cal. PRB.
Moebedda is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 05:17 PM
  #18  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

Moebedda, there are a few for instance the new Striker Crossbow.
gleason.chapman, I don't know where you got the idea they the only shot you should take with a PRB is broadside. I have shot diagonally through a big IL doe[ 140 #] and hit the buk behind her in the neck and took a big chunck out of his spine, dropped both deer on the spot. Any 235gr ball bullet or what ever moving at over 2000 FPS is going to do a lot of damage when applied to the right spot.
I bet some of these ideas got started by people trying to use squrril guns on deer and people that dont put half the ball weight or more in powder. Lee



lemoyne is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 05:38 PM
  #19  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

Chap, A .45 muzzleloader shooting a 128 grain PRB has killed hundreds of thousands of whitetails when this country was being settled. .45cal and under. Davy Crocket didnt use no big bore rifle in his days. Back then, those people depended on their rifles for defense and mainly for putting food on their tables.

FPS/ Ft lbs energy mean nothing to me. They are just numbers. I prefer to stick with the history the PRB has made in this country and other countries.
frontier gander is offline  
Old 10-31-2007, 07:28 PM
  #20  
Nontypical Buck
 
HuntAway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
Default RE: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data

If our fore father's had read this they would have stayed in the old country! Critter's can't be killed there with our gun's!!!

All things have their limitations. Be it a sling shot, ML, CF or bow and arrow. Used within their capabilities all are efficient at what they do.
HuntAway is offline  

Quick Reply: Round Ball Velocity/Energy Data


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.