Back in after LONG hiatus, some ???
10-29-2007 | 09:36 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: TX Panhandle
Back in after LONG hiatus, some ???
Well, I am getting back into black powder after a long time off, and I have some questions. I am sure there will be many more to follow, after the initial round.
Anywho, my rifle is a southpaw TC Renegade that I built from a kit when I was 17, in the late 80's. 50 cal, 1-48 twist, percussion. I want to stay as traditional as possible with my loading, but I really need to put a deer down quick also. The neighbors are close and I really need to anchor one as good as I can. I do not mind limiting my range, alot of my hunting has been with a bow anyways. A PRB intrigues me, but I realize I may need to go to a conical to put them down soild. Thoughts on this?????
Shot it yesterday, sights still dang close, even after all these years. It put 6 balls into 2.5" @ 50 yards, from a clean bore with iron sights and 90 gr of Pyrodex RS. Not earth shattering, I know, but I thought it was okay for the first time out. It loads real tight though. Balls mike .492, used some pillow ticking from the cellar that mikes .018, TC lube, but it starts REAL hard. I noticed that Hornady makes a ball that is .485, would that be enought to help out quite a bit on the loading or not? Even if I don't use the PRB for deer I will for turkey and so I need a something that loads decent in the field.
I would also like to hear from someone on some patch lube options. The TC lube is very messy, I have heard about some other things like olive oil, etc. I would like some "handy in the field" options. I know there are some folks here with some good old school experience, I would like to hear about it. Thanks in advance.
Anywho, my rifle is a southpaw TC Renegade that I built from a kit when I was 17, in the late 80's. 50 cal, 1-48 twist, percussion. I want to stay as traditional as possible with my loading, but I really need to put a deer down quick also. The neighbors are close and I really need to anchor one as good as I can. I do not mind limiting my range, alot of my hunting has been with a bow anyways. A PRB intrigues me, but I realize I may need to go to a conical to put them down soild. Thoughts on this?????
Shot it yesterday, sights still dang close, even after all these years. It put 6 balls into 2.5" @ 50 yards, from a clean bore with iron sights and 90 gr of Pyrodex RS. Not earth shattering, I know, but I thought it was okay for the first time out. It loads real tight though. Balls mike .492, used some pillow ticking from the cellar that mikes .018, TC lube, but it starts REAL hard. I noticed that Hornady makes a ball that is .485, would that be enought to help out quite a bit on the loading or not? Even if I don't use the PRB for deer I will for turkey and so I need a something that loads decent in the field.
I would also like to hear from someone on some patch lube options. The TC lube is very messy, I have heard about some other things like olive oil, etc. I would like some "handy in the field" options. I know there are some folks here with some good old school experience, I would like to hear about it. Thanks in advance.
10-29-2007 | 09:46 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: TX Panhandle
RE: Back in after LONG hiatus, some ???
I guess I should add, I have to buy more balls anyways, I just have a few left. Can order one or the other, just as easy. Have tons of that patch material though and it seemed to work well, not burned or cut on any of the shots. .006 one way, .005 the other, will it make a difference though?
(thanks for input)
(thanks for input)
10-29-2007 | 10:07 AM
#4
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: Back in after LONG hiatus, some ???
I would stick with a good brand like Hornady or Speer .490 roundball. As for the patch, some pillow tick is still one of the best things out there to patch with. I buy the material at Wal Mart and cut my own from the muzzle.
Roundball normally start hard. It often times takes a good "wack" on the ball of the short starter to get it seated in. If it is moving hard down the barrel, that's a different matter, but Thompson Centers are made to shoot .490 and Lyman suggests .495 ball. I would not get to small a ball as it can and normally does effect your accuracy. I hope you mean it is not so tight that you have to use a mallet and pound the ramrod down to seat the ball (all joking aside, I have done it and seen it done).
A good lube I use is moose milk. I make it with;
Liquid Lube - Moose Milk[/b]
[/b]
[/b]
8 ounces of isopropyl alcohol
3 ounces of Castor Oil
4 ounces of Witch Hazel
16 ounces of tap water
1 ounce of Murphy’s Oil Soap
(make sure you mix the ingredients in the exact order they are listed)
I buy a yard of material of 100% cotton blue strip pillow tick at the local wal mart. I wash that in the washing machine. I then line dry the material. After that you can tear the strip real easy off that bolt of material. I like to tear off an inch and a half. Then you soak that strip in moose milk. Ring the excess moose milk out. Then I lay that on an old window screen in the sun and let it dry. This is a dry patch . If you like a more wet patch, you can spritz them with a spritzer bottle.
I keep my liquid in a "Off Bug Spray Pump model bottle." Then on the range I can spritz the patch as wet or as dry as I like. Often times a wetter patch will slide better. If you are worried about contamination of the powder charge put a felt wool bore button on top of the powder first. It will absorb any of the lube that might try to make it down to the charge.
Or you can spritz the patch heavy and then dry them on some old window screen. These are dry lube patches. They work fine to. They are just a little harder to load.
Solid Lube Formula[/b]
2 ounces of Bees Wax
8 ounces of Castor Oil
1 ounce Murphy’s Oil Soap
Using a double boiler system, melt the bees wax. While keeping the wax liquid, heat the Castor oil with the double boiler also. Then mix the two together. Stir them together and while doing this a scum will form. You need to scrap the scum off the liquid. Once the scum is scraped off the mix, then add the Murphy’s Oil Soap and stir fast while it is melted. This will make a nice frothy appearance and very smooth. Pour the mix into containers and it will set up in a short time.
This mix will not break down in heat and is still usable in cold weather. It makes a great conical lube. A person from another forum gave these recipes out to people. "Stumpkiller", and they are great lubes.
That is a real good solid lube mix. It holds together real well and makes a good patch or conical lube.
If your rifle is loading hard, give it a good cleaning with some solvent and bore brush. Maybe over time the lands and grooves have filled in with who knows what. Even a good cleaning with some J-B Bore Paste. If you were a bore butter user, that old bore butter might have dried hard in that barrel and is restricting that bore. Get some boiling water, remove the barrel, and start pouring that down the barrel. It will melt the old bore butter and wash it out. Be sure to pull your nipple from the bolster.
A roundball is still a deadly projectile. Do not under estimate it. If you want to "plant" a deer then you need to break it down. A ball can do that as well as a conical. Shoot for the spine, neck, or clavicle. Normally you break that main spine area and it will put them on the ground. They might not be dead though. Still a good heart lung shot should only have them running a short distance.
Perhaps it is time to meet the neighbor and see if they would allow you to track onto their property. I had neighbors like that once. Where I live, everyone told me the old man'spropertynext door, that hewas nuts. He'd shoot me if I shot a doe.He hated hunters. Well I shot a doe one yearand it ran onto his property. So I walked up knocked on the door told him why I needed to track his land. He at first was a little upset, and so I told him he could let me track this doe and fill my tag, or I'd go shoot another one and leave this wounded one on his property for the coyotes. He then kind of laughed at me, and invited me for a cup of coffee.. We are now good friends actually.. But neighbors can be strange.
See if some of that does not help loading better. Also Pyrodex RS is a good powder, but sometimes you just have to swab the barrel when you use that stuff. It acts strange. One day you can shoot all day and the next time, you clean after every third shot.
Roundball normally start hard. It often times takes a good "wack" on the ball of the short starter to get it seated in. If it is moving hard down the barrel, that's a different matter, but Thompson Centers are made to shoot .490 and Lyman suggests .495 ball. I would not get to small a ball as it can and normally does effect your accuracy. I hope you mean it is not so tight that you have to use a mallet and pound the ramrod down to seat the ball (all joking aside, I have done it and seen it done).
A good lube I use is moose milk. I make it with;
Liquid Lube - Moose Milk[/b]
[/b]
[/b]
8 ounces of isopropyl alcohol
3 ounces of Castor Oil
4 ounces of Witch Hazel
16 ounces of tap water
1 ounce of Murphy’s Oil Soap
(make sure you mix the ingredients in the exact order they are listed)
I buy a yard of material of 100% cotton blue strip pillow tick at the local wal mart. I wash that in the washing machine. I then line dry the material. After that you can tear the strip real easy off that bolt of material. I like to tear off an inch and a half. Then you soak that strip in moose milk. Ring the excess moose milk out. Then I lay that on an old window screen in the sun and let it dry. This is a dry patch . If you like a more wet patch, you can spritz them with a spritzer bottle.
I keep my liquid in a "Off Bug Spray Pump model bottle." Then on the range I can spritz the patch as wet or as dry as I like. Often times a wetter patch will slide better. If you are worried about contamination of the powder charge put a felt wool bore button on top of the powder first. It will absorb any of the lube that might try to make it down to the charge.
Or you can spritz the patch heavy and then dry them on some old window screen. These are dry lube patches. They work fine to. They are just a little harder to load.
Solid Lube Formula[/b]
2 ounces of Bees Wax
8 ounces of Castor Oil
1 ounce Murphy’s Oil Soap
Using a double boiler system, melt the bees wax. While keeping the wax liquid, heat the Castor oil with the double boiler also. Then mix the two together. Stir them together and while doing this a scum will form. You need to scrap the scum off the liquid. Once the scum is scraped off the mix, then add the Murphy’s Oil Soap and stir fast while it is melted. This will make a nice frothy appearance and very smooth. Pour the mix into containers and it will set up in a short time.
This mix will not break down in heat and is still usable in cold weather. It makes a great conical lube. A person from another forum gave these recipes out to people. "Stumpkiller", and they are great lubes.
That is a real good solid lube mix. It holds together real well and makes a good patch or conical lube.
If your rifle is loading hard, give it a good cleaning with some solvent and bore brush. Maybe over time the lands and grooves have filled in with who knows what. Even a good cleaning with some J-B Bore Paste. If you were a bore butter user, that old bore butter might have dried hard in that barrel and is restricting that bore. Get some boiling water, remove the barrel, and start pouring that down the barrel. It will melt the old bore butter and wash it out. Be sure to pull your nipple from the bolster.
A roundball is still a deadly projectile. Do not under estimate it. If you want to "plant" a deer then you need to break it down. A ball can do that as well as a conical. Shoot for the spine, neck, or clavicle. Normally you break that main spine area and it will put them on the ground. They might not be dead though. Still a good heart lung shot should only have them running a short distance.
Perhaps it is time to meet the neighbor and see if they would allow you to track onto their property. I had neighbors like that once. Where I live, everyone told me the old man'spropertynext door, that hewas nuts. He'd shoot me if I shot a doe.He hated hunters. Well I shot a doe one yearand it ran onto his property. So I walked up knocked on the door told him why I needed to track his land. He at first was a little upset, and so I told him he could let me track this doe and fill my tag, or I'd go shoot another one and leave this wounded one on his property for the coyotes. He then kind of laughed at me, and invited me for a cup of coffee.. We are now good friends actually.. But neighbors can be strange.
See if some of that does not help loading better. Also Pyrodex RS is a good powder, but sometimes you just have to swab the barrel when you use that stuff. It acts strange. One day you can shoot all day and the next time, you clean after every third shot.
10-29-2007 | 11:01 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: TX Panhandle
RE: Back in after LONG hiatus, some ???
Thank you very much for the reply. Mainly, it just starts hard, once it is moving it does okay. Looks like I will stay with what I've got, but will try some of those lubes. Probably need a starter that fits it better too.
It also may slick up some. Due to some improper storage, it had some rust and slight pitting. It was cleaned before it was put up, but I guess I didn't get it oiled good or something. When I got it out I cleaned it real well with a bronze brush and HOT soapy water, had to use a 3M pad on one of those tornado brushes to get some of the rust. It did clean up well though,but that is why I didn't think a 2.5" group was too bad, all things considered...
Breaking the deer down was my plan though, didn't know if the PRB was up to breaking shoulders or not. I don't mind letting them get close, or waiting for the right shot. 50 to 75 yards will probably be my top end.
It also may slick up some. Due to some improper storage, it had some rust and slight pitting. It was cleaned before it was put up, but I guess I didn't get it oiled good or something. When I got it out I cleaned it real well with a bronze brush and HOT soapy water, had to use a 3M pad on one of those tornado brushes to get some of the rust. It did clean up well though,but that is why I didn't think a 2.5" group was too bad, all things considered...
Breaking the deer down was my plan though, didn't know if the PRB was up to breaking shoulders or not. I don't mind letting them get close, or waiting for the right shot. 50 to 75 yards will probably be my top end.
10-29-2007 | 12:04 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Back in after LONG hiatus, some ???
ORIGINAL: Critr-Gitr
Well, I am getting back into black powder after a long time off, and I have some questions. I am sure there will be many more to follow, after the initial round.
Anywho, my rifle is a southpaw TC Renegade that I built from a kit when I was 17, in the late 80's. 50 cal, 1-48 twist, percussion. I want to stay as traditional as possible with my loading, but I really need to put a deer down quick also. The neighbors are close and I really need to anchor one as good as I can. I do not mind limiting my range, alot of my hunting has been with a bow anyways. A PRB intrigues me, but I realize I may need to go to a conical to put them down soild. Thoughts on this?????
Shot it yesterday, sights still dang close, even after all these years. It put 6 balls into 2.5" @ 50 yards, from a clean bore with iron sights and 90 gr of Pyrodex RS. Not earth shattering, I know, but I thought it was okay for the first time out. It loads real tight though. Balls mike .492, used some pillow ticking from the cellar that mikes .018, TC lube, but it starts REAL hard. I noticed that Hornady makes a ball that is .485, would that be enought to help out quite a bit on the loading or not? Even if I don't use the PRB for deer I will for turkey and so I need a something that loads decent in the field.
I would also like to hear from someone on some patch lube options. The TC lube is very messy, I have heard about some other things like olive oil, etc. I would like some "handy in the field" options. I know there are some folks here with some good old school experience, I would like to hear about it. Thanks in advance.
Well, I am getting back into black powder after a long time off, and I have some questions. I am sure there will be many more to follow, after the initial round.
Anywho, my rifle is a southpaw TC Renegade that I built from a kit when I was 17, in the late 80's. 50 cal, 1-48 twist, percussion. I want to stay as traditional as possible with my loading, but I really need to put a deer down quick also. The neighbors are close and I really need to anchor one as good as I can. I do not mind limiting my range, alot of my hunting has been with a bow anyways. A PRB intrigues me, but I realize I may need to go to a conical to put them down soild. Thoughts on this?????
Shot it yesterday, sights still dang close, even after all these years. It put 6 balls into 2.5" @ 50 yards, from a clean bore with iron sights and 90 gr of Pyrodex RS. Not earth shattering, I know, but I thought it was okay for the first time out. It loads real tight though. Balls mike .492, used some pillow ticking from the cellar that mikes .018, TC lube, but it starts REAL hard. I noticed that Hornady makes a ball that is .485, would that be enought to help out quite a bit on the loading or not? Even if I don't use the PRB for deer I will for turkey and so I need a something that loads decent in the field.
I would also like to hear from someone on some patch lube options. The TC lube is very messy, I have heard about some other things like olive oil, etc. I would like some "handy in the field" options. I know there are some folks here with some good old school experience, I would like to hear about it. Thanks in advance.
10-29-2007 | 02:49 PM
#7
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: Back in after LONG hiatus, some ???
At 80 yards a roundball will shoot through one deer and still break the spine of a second one standing behind the first. I know this from an accident I did once, shooting at a deer. I never saw the second one behind the first. Should have counted legs I guess. At least I had enough tags to cover the mistake. I just never figured to fill both tags with one shot.
I've shot through shoulder blades with a roundball. Although I normally hunt with a .54.
I've shot through shoulder blades with a roundball. Although I normally hunt with a .54.
10-29-2007 | 03:08 PM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Likes: 0
RE: Back in after LONG hiatus, some ???
I tried a 50 for a long time it just did not knock them down then I tried a 54 cal with a long barrel [35.5 inch] now that works it put most deer [90%] on the spot if they are hit right. Lee
