I bounce around to half a dozen ML forums and seem to constantly see posts from guys that get 100-yard one-inch groups on a regular basis, some of them with brand new guns and the first loads they tried. Well,I gotta' tell 'ya - that's not me.

For example: I bought my first and only in-line about a year ago - a Lyman Mustang.Over the last year I've shot just about a hundred five-shot groups with the gun, mostly at 100 yards but sometimes at 50 when I didn't feel like walking to the 100 yard target. I've shot Gold Bonds, XTPs, Barnes Spitfires, Lee REALs, Hornady Great Plains, and a few other bullets, in various weights, in various sabots, and with various powders and powder charges. Regulars on this forum have seen a number of my test targets.

What I've proved to myself is that this gun is not a "one-hole-shooter". I can only count on an honest three inches at one hundred yards - yet I still like the gun a lot. For one thing, I can get that three inches with almost any bullet and any powder if I play around with the charge.On the other hand, I've seen posts from guys who got rid of a gun because it shot groups like I'm getting.

Now, I know you're wondering whether it's the gun or the shooter. I assure you Ican shoot one-inch five shot groups with my 45-70pretty consistently, and with loads that would turn the faint-of-heart a pale shade of green.

I've seen a lot of targets posted. Most of them are totally believable and posted by people I have no doubt are reporting facts.Still, Iread about a lot of one-hole groups yetnever see a target, or never hear how many shots were involved, or never hear the distance, or if that was one group out of five groupsshot that day.Sometimes I wonder if those one-holers were nothing more than two shots out of ten fired at 30 yards.

I know my gun is a "three-incher"because I shoot five-shot groups, mostly at a measured 100 yards. To me, two shots is not a "group". Three shots is a group, but sometimes a lying group. I'm pretty sure a five-shot group is honestly telling me what the gun and load can do.

So, my final thought is this. My hunting load with this gun is 90 grains weight (103 grains volume) T-7 and a 300 grain Gold Dot at a little over 1800 fps.It's an honest three-inch load as shown in the target below. Doesn't look very tight, does it? Yet, the worst shot on that target - shot #3 - is only 1 3/4" from the point of aim. IfI don't kill a deer out to 150 yards, it's not the gun's fault.

Well, that's the way I see it anyway.

Buy my Winchester and you to can be one of those guys that shoots 1" groups @ 100. But tell them an inch because if you say its under an inch, they wont believe it

Semisane

Did not see a target.. but i believe exactly what you have said...

and,by-the-way your wife is wrong

[Deleted by Admins]

Sorry 'bout that. I've fixed it.

Me too - and I love 'em for that.

with my ML, i'm happy with any groups under 5". i only hunt 2 weekends with my ML, so i don't spend the time on the range like i do with my centerfires. i don't spend hours trying different loads and powder measures, i shoot powerbelts (may be changing due to recent findings after field dressing) and pellets due to their simplicity

Well I have shot some excellent groups with different rifles. But you have to understand, I shoot every day of the week practically. Normally at least five time a week. Still when I am asked how well my rifle will group, I normally tell them at 100 yards, with a scope two inches on a real good day, but every day is not a good day. With open sights, three inches is a good day, and I have a lot of bad days as well.

If you have have a scoped rifle and shoot three inches or better groups at 100 yards, you should have little problem harvestinga deer. If you can not shoot that at 100 yards, perhaps you might want to start trying to get closer.

A lot of people Ithink have shot that clover leaf or one inchgroup. I have even done that myself. But I am skeptical when they claim thatevery time they go out to the range they shoot that clover leaf group. If they do they need to start applications for some shooting teams, as they have some real talent.

I also like the way some people practice, like sabotloader shooting clay birds. When you can consistently hit that clay pigeon you have no problem shooting deer at those distances. And this might sound strange, but I seem to shoot better at objects then punching holes in paper. Why? No idea. Today I was leaning wood chunks against each other on a box at 50 yards. The object was to knock one of them off without knocking the others off. Or I would shoot for where two of them might meet and try to knock two of them off with one shot. I am surprised at how well that makes you concentrate.

I'll be honest, I have only shot twice at 100 yards and I am happy with both trys, first one I was just happy I got it on paper with a killer 6" group (nerves) the second at 3 3/4" group (calmed down a lot). that was with the first load combo I have tried, and I can get bullets to go though the same hole, at 50 yards in 10 shots. forgot the change the target during my sight in[&:]. I just started with Muzzleloaders I am just happy overall just to hit the paper. I may try some bottles next time I go.

The below targets contain 3 consecutive 3-shot groups with only scope adjustments between. Shot1 in group 1 was a cold, clean bore and all subsequent shots were loaded after a single alcohol dampenedpatch (both sides). Time between shots was not consistent but the barrel was never really HOT. There was 1 additional shot fired at the bull which was below the one on the left - that shot was my first adjustment following group 1 and was aimed at the lower left bull (not in pic) but was still too high. Made another adjustment and fired group 2 (that is 3 shots).



Nothing that fantastic but not that bad. This was only the second time I had ever tried BM3 and my first ever use of the 200 grain Shockwaves. The final group was my best effort to really perform and it didn't change much, except the spread is almost entirely in the vertical. Believe I can tighten that up a bit with more precise charges.

Of course those were fired using a scope - without a scope I would be lucky to keep all shots on the big box these targets were taped on. Sure wish I had my eyesight back as it used to be. Sure wish I felt as good as I once did. Sure wish I had 47 million dollars in the bank and all my kids/grandkids were filthy rich and healthy.

Semisane - With that rifle, I don't think you have to worry about killing a deer at 100 yds. I have to agree with Cayugad on the 'good day - bad day' thing. There are days when I swear I could shoot bees off a honey jar without chipping the glass and other days when I seem to be all over the paper. Maybe it depands on the time of day, sunlight conditions or whatever. But I don't shoot in-lines any more and prefer the traditional sidelocks and open sights. And at my age, sometimes thesights get fuzzy.