cayugad,when looking for a load for the Triumph I tried MMPHPH12 they were so tight I could not load with out pounding them down,MMP-HPH24 loadedok shot 1.5 to 1.75,tried Crush Ribs they shot .75 to 1.2 inch.
This was using 250gr Gold Dot and 100 777-FF with Win standard Primer. I also conducted a swith primer test trying Win 777 primers and 209 standard primer could not tell any differance in residue[the Triumph dont crudring]
Though you might find this interesting,I have come to the conclusion that with a lot of guns the right sabot is more critical than the brand of bullet. Lee

I've noticed the same thing, my rifle likes the older T/C 250 Shockwaves, didn't like the sabots Hornady packed with their bullets or the MMP-24s...

For what its worth...My .54 caliber flintlock is just as particular with patch material as well....

If you try that Great Plains again, humor me and weight sort the bullets and weigh the powder charges equivalent to90 grains by volume. An overpowder wad wouldn't hurt either.

This totally fits with my experience in shooting my new Savage and also some things I learned myself and what folks say over on the "Savage Smokeless board". "The tighter the sabot, the tighter the group." Smokeless powder is harder to ignite, in particular 4198 is more difficult to ignite that 5744. I could NOT get 4198 to go off with the supplied sabot from Parker in a Ballistic Extreme. Once I switch to the tighter MMP12 sabot,I could get the 4198 to fire. I also LEARNED that you have to put your weight into smokeless after hitting the bottom and seating the bullet. I was also NOT doing that. I also learned that primers make a big difference, with Winchester 209 being the hottest/best, I was using Remington Kleen bore, and they get "Kleen" by lesseningthe charge in the primer. All these are factors in Smokeless,they are less so forignition in regular inlines, but sabots makes a huge difference as you have found out. Thanks fortaking the time to do this Semisane, your getting saner and saner, at least on this forum, maybe not at home. Chap gleason

Check out the experiment this fellow did with Primers:

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thre ad=1190323548

Great info, expecially for smokeless powder, which is harder to ignite that BP or subs.
Chap Gleason

OK Underclocked, I'll do that next week end, but will have to use some 385 grainGreat Plains that I have on hand - I'm out of 410s. Will shoot three 5-shot groups, one each with Triple Seven, Pyrodex, and American Pioneer.

Do you want me to stick with90 grains volume for the 385s?

Are you sure about the overpowder wads? I have some .510" diameter, 1/16" thickCircle Fly vegetable fiber wads that I soaked with Lee Liquid Alox and dried in the sun. They work great under Lee REALs, but I've never tried them under GPs. Always thought you shouldn't use wads under hollow base bullets like the GPs.

I agree with that statement 100%. In fact I am so convinced of it, that I printed Semisane experiment and put it on my web site here:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/Do%20Sabots%20Make%20a%20Difference%20in%20an%20in line--experiment%20by%20SemiSane%20same%20bullet,%20same %20powder%20different%20sabots.pdf

so I could refer to it. I also put the NIC_58 Primer Test on it:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Primers%20by%20NIC_58%20on%20Doug's%20Savage%20Boa rd.pdf

because they are huge for smokeless and also placed the Sabotloader how to makeWindex Swabs for Crud ring:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/Sabot%20Loaders%20Windex%20swabing%20procedures%20 with%20pictures%20for%20crud%20ring%20using%20777. pdf

Chap Gleason

Chap Gleason

Shoot, I had forgotten the Great Plains bullet is hollow based! Belay that request.

But yes pleaseon the 90 grains.

OkeeDoekee, no wad & 90 GV. Already have the targets prepared and thepowder weighed out (90 grain volume equivalent).