250 vs 300gr
 

I'm looking for any wisdom on using 250 vs 300gr for whitetail this Fall.Specifically,anyone who's shooting speer gold dots. I hunt in brushy conditions where I can rarely see let alone shoot100 yards. Is it a wash?

Tom

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

I've yet to shoot a deer with a Gold Dot but my theory is when possible, bigger is better. I like to throw lead. The bigger projectile will of course have a lower velocity, but at close ranges it should not really make much of a difference. The heavier projectile should carry more energy, and should penetrate better, although I would guess that the 250 would have little trouble either. So I would suggest in your case that what ever of the two shoots the most accurate group is the one I would use.

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

I'd let the gun decide.
Either bullet weight should be fine for whitetail, but some guns have definate likes/dislikes. My Lyman Mustang groups 250 grain bullets much better than 300 grain. I've read another members posts that say his Mustang is just the opposite. Seems like each barrel made has it's own character, the tough part is figuring out what your barrel performs best with.

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

If your shots are under 100 yards, use the 300 hands down. There is no reason to use the 250 unless you are looking for longer range in my opinion. I have no experience with the Speer's but I believe that the 300's are more accurate (at shorter ranges).

No question.... the 300 gets my vote

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

gopherfan

For deer I am a 240/250/260 fan and for elk I use 300 grain projectiles. I believe the difference in construction of the two bullets is the reason.... the 300 is normally a stronger bullet with thicker copper on the bullet - a perfect bullet for thick skinned animals such as elk, moose, or bear. Two years ago I shot a really nice whitetail buck during elk season, so I was loaded up with a .458 Nosler 300 grain partition. I shot the deer at a ridiculously close range of about 15 yards.... the 300 entered and passed through so quickly it really did not get chance to do much other than make a hole - expansion had barely started as it passed throught the hide on the other side.

The opposit is true when using the 250 speer or 260 Nosler - the bullet copper is not as strong and the HP is deeper in both bullets and expansion and Hydrostatic shock begins as soon as the bullet passes through the hide on the close side. The bullet still passes through the deer but it creates a great deal of shock to the animal. The little toehead I shot this year with the 260 Nosler also shows me how effective this bullet or even the speer is out to 170 yards.

Just my thoughts... Chapman Gleason went the other way this year with a deer he shot... he used a 300 grain Speer Goldand it performed very well for him...

If you believe Hornady advertising - more deer have been killed with a hornady 240 grain XTP than any other bullet...

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

Thanks everyone. You addressed all of my concerns and made great points. From what I gather...as long as I can place the shot it probably doesn't make too much difference. Looks like I have some range work ahead of me to see what groups best. Tom

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

Regarding velocity of the two - I know this is goint to sound crazy, but.....

Here are actual 5-shot velocities I got with 250 and 300 grain Gold Dots over 100 grains T-7 FFG and Harvester Crush Rib sabots.

250 grain bullet: 1901, 1653, 1626, 1794, 1834 = 1761 fps average.

300 grain bullet: 1731, 1730, 1727, 1766, 1735 = 1737fps average.

Got a 3" 50 yard group with the 250s, and a 1 5/8" group with the 300s.

Notice the velocity spread with the 250s.

I don't explain 'em - I just report 'em.

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

Semisane

I think I might be able to answer some of this but you are probably not going to agree a whole bunch...

I would almost bet you some of what you are seeing is because of the "crush rib" sabot...

The 250 grain bullet does not have the length of the 300 grain bullet, when you put it into a sabot and put it down the barrel there is somewhat less bearing surface pushing the sabot against the bore... when you put the 300 grain bullet down you have a greater bearing surface against the barrel. The 300 is going to seal the pressure better than the 250's. This also might explain why you are getting better groups with 300 grain than the 250's.

Have you ever tried using regular Harvester sabots in your bore? It might perform even better - if you can get it down - I can not remember what you are shooting.

Your velocities are somewhat lower than mine using the same charge, but that could be in the chronograph itself.

The only reason I think I can say all of this and think I know what I am talking about is several months ago I did some sabot testing for MMP. I tested HPH-24's Regular Harvesters, MMP's new 3 petal sabot and the "crush rib" - I should also say that MMP did not direct the testing of MMP vs Harvester. I did that on my own for my own information...

In my testing the "crush rib" consistently shot lower velocities than did the 3 petal sabot - usially about 400 fps less than the 3p. On the other hand the regular Harvester shot with about equal velocities with the HPH-24.

I really thought I had those test results on this computer but they must be on the base computer... If you would like to see those numbers let me know - I think, I hope,I can dig them up from my other computer

I will post one ofthe targets with velocities that was shot during this testing with my A&H. I do not know why this target is on here and the rest are not.

Please do not think I am trying to trash the "crush rib" because I am not - all I am trying to do is explain what I found. The "crush rib" & the 3p should both be considered a sabot of last resort IF either the HPH-24 or the regular Harvester will not load into your gun. Also remember Harvester has both a short petal and a longer petal sabot - both consider regular Harvester sabots.

Hope I did not cause any hard feeling for anybody - Semisane I will use your last statement with your permission...- I just report 'em. (my numbers and findings)

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

You may be right sabotloader, the longer bearing surface may have an influence. Or maybe the extra weight is causing a better seal at the sabot cup.

The gun in question is a Lyman Mustang with a loose bore. I've used MMP-24s in it and, in fact, did a MMP-24/Crush Rib comparison a while back. The Crush Ribsproduced better groups, even though velocities were real close between the two.The comparison was with 300 grain bullets only. It would be interesting to repeat it with 250 grain bullets.

See my comparison in the following thread (be sure to scroll down to the comment with pictures of the sabots).

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2153706&mpage=1&key=Sabots%2cmak e%2cdifference&#2153781


The MMPs are not hard loading in my gun. They just don't do as well as the Crush Ribs. I haven't tried the regular Harvester sabots.

Haven't shot for the last month. Temperature in the mid 90's with humidity in the upper 70's just does not draw me to the range. Can't hardly wait for that first cool front in late September.

RE: 250 vs 300gr
 

My rifle shoots lighter bulletsmore accuratelyand theyalso produce less feltrecoil. Iuse pure lead bullets for better expansion and because oftheir lower cost.