Powder Comparison
06-04-2007 | 11:07 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
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From: Wisconsin
Powder Comparison
I was reading over an old CVA manual today, trying to help someone with a question they had about a rifle and came across this chart. The chart compares the strength of Black Powder and Pyrodex. While I always considered Pyrodex a "little" stronger, I never considered it quite what his chart claims. Interesting figure is, look at 120 grains of Black Powder. They consider that equal to 96 grains of Pyrodex. I would have never guessed the difference was that much.
So my question is, do you agree or disagree? If so any chronograph data to back your points?
06-04-2007 | 11:44 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,800
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From: Fargo, ND
RE: Powder Comparison
Cayugad, You need to get a Chrono. I am thought you would have one by now. Anyone have a chrono who has compared Pyro and Black?
Truthfully, I do not notice any difference between Goex and Pyrodex. They both smell like sulfer, they both smoke a lot, and they both ignite fine for me. I think Pyrodexreally close toGoex. I would not guess there would be that much difference. I know they probably did some tests before they put that in there though. That is very interesting.
Truthfully, I do not notice any difference between Goex and Pyrodex. They both smell like sulfer, they both smoke a lot, and they both ignite fine for me. I think Pyrodexreally close toGoex. I would not guess there would be that much difference. I know they probably did some tests before they put that in there though. That is very interesting.
06-04-2007 | 12:20 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,918
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From: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
RE: Powder Comparison
Here's what I got with my adjustable brass powder measure set at 100 grains volume. Filled it with each type of powder, tapped the side of the measurewith a pencil six times to settle the powder (it settled about 1/4"), then filled it again to overflowing, tapped it down again twice, then leveled it off and weighed it.
Goex FFGweighed 110 grains even.
Pyrodex RS weighed 78.0 grains.
Pyrodex Select RS weighed 76.7 grains.
Triple Seven FFG weighed 77.8 grains.
Triple Seven FFFG weighed 87.0 grains.
Goex FFGweighed 110 grains even.
Pyrodex RS weighed 78.0 grains.
Pyrodex Select RS weighed 76.7 grains.
Triple Seven FFG weighed 77.8 grains.
Triple Seven FFFG weighed 87.0 grains.
06-04-2007 | 01:02 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,246
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From:
RE: Powder Comparison
ORIGINAL: Semisane
Here's what I got with my adjustable brass powder measure set at 100 grains volume. Filled it with each type of powder, tapped the side of the measurewith a pencil six times to settle the powder (it settled about 1/4"), then filled it again to overflowing, tapped it down again twice, then leveled it off and weighed it.
Goex FFGweighed 110 grains even.
Pyrodex RS weighed 78.0 grains.
Pyrodex Select RS weighed 76.7 grains.
Triple Seven FFG weighed 77.8 grains.
Triple Seven FFFG weighed 87.0 grains.
Here's what I got with my adjustable brass powder measure set at 100 grains volume. Filled it with each type of powder, tapped the side of the measurewith a pencil six times to settle the powder (it settled about 1/4"), then filled it again to overflowing, tapped it down again twice, then leveled it off and weighed it.
Goex FFGweighed 110 grains even.
Pyrodex RS weighed 78.0 grains.
Pyrodex Select RS weighed 76.7 grains.
Triple Seven FFG weighed 77.8 grains.
Triple Seven FFFG weighed 87.0 grains.
06-04-2007 | 01:42 PM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
RE: Powder Comparison
cayugad
Dave I have always thought when measured by volume and using the same size BP and Pyro were equal...
According to Hodgdon::::
further::::
and finally:::
That is what I found out and yu know how conservative Hodgdon is... so if they are indicating volume for volume then it must be close...
Dave I have always thought when measured by volume and using the same size BP and Pyro were equal...
According to Hodgdon::::
Pyrodex is measured just like blackpowder is measured. A volumetric measure is adjusted to the required load and the powder is poured in. Ex. A load for a 50 caliber rifle calls for 90 grains of FFG blackpowder or 90 grains of Pyrodex RS. The measure is set to 90 grains, the powder is poured into the measure and then poured down the bore of the rifle.
There is no advantage to weighing charges of Pyrodex or blackpowder. Because these powders are very inefficient by today’s standards, volumetric measurement is the quickest, easiest and most accurate way to measure powder.
Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder and weighs only about 70% as much as blackpowder. However, because Pyrodex yields more energy per pound than does blackpowder, the same volume of Pyrodex gives similar performance to blackpowder. Pyrodex loads given in this manual for muzzleloading guns are measured by volume, not weight.
06-04-2007 | 02:20 PM
#9
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 0
From: Tri Cities, Washington
RE: Powder Comparison
After shooting Swiss 3F and Triple 7 2F this weekend, all I can say is that I did not perceive a difference in recoil and there was not a significantdifference in POI at 70 yards.
06-04-2007 | 03:36 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
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From: Wisconsin
RE: Powder Comparison
People, I could not agree more with you. I always was under the impression that when you measured by volume, that Black Powder and Pyrodex were the same in "power." Maybe Pyrodex had a little edge, but for instance this year I shot a deer with 90 grains of Goex 2f. I just can't believe that 72 grains of Pyrodex RS would produce the same energy down range.
When I shoot my Black Diamond XR with a 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB I load 100 grains of Goex 2f. And now they want me to believe that 80 grains of Pyrodex will produce the same results?
I do not own a chronograph. Of all people that should, I guess I am one who should own one. My friends around here are always asking me what velocity certain loads have and I tell them, it should be plenty but I have no idea.. or I read another person's posts who uses Triple Se7en (yes sabotloader I keep track of your numbers) and he got this with this load.. etc.
It was just when I saw that chart, it really threw me for a loop. I was shooting 110 grains of Goex 2f out of my .58 caliber GMB with a roundball. 88 grains of Pyrodex is going to give me that same thud down range? Well today I got out my scale, powder measure, Goex 2f, Pyrodex, Pyrodex P, Triple Se7en 2f, Triple Se7en 3f, and American Pioneer Powder 2f, and the new tubes and caps (thanks Lane) and measured out sixty different loads to replicate this chart and some other shooting suspicions I have. I was very careful in getting an average weight, and all loads are not more then .01 different then the others. Just to double check I even weighed some of the tubes to compare them. And they were equal.
If it don't rain tomorrow, I might just do some field shooting on my own to see what happens. My new shooting platform/rest I bought will be here tomorrow along with a couple hundred new sabots, and it will give me a chance to test that as well.
Are those Chrony .. chronographs any good they sell at Midsouth Shooters Supply?
When I shoot my Black Diamond XR with a 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB I load 100 grains of Goex 2f. And now they want me to believe that 80 grains of Pyrodex will produce the same results?
I do not own a chronograph. Of all people that should, I guess I am one who should own one. My friends around here are always asking me what velocity certain loads have and I tell them, it should be plenty but I have no idea.. or I read another person's posts who uses Triple Se7en (yes sabotloader I keep track of your numbers) and he got this with this load.. etc.
It was just when I saw that chart, it really threw me for a loop. I was shooting 110 grains of Goex 2f out of my .58 caliber GMB with a roundball. 88 grains of Pyrodex is going to give me that same thud down range? Well today I got out my scale, powder measure, Goex 2f, Pyrodex, Pyrodex P, Triple Se7en 2f, Triple Se7en 3f, and American Pioneer Powder 2f, and the new tubes and caps (thanks Lane) and measured out sixty different loads to replicate this chart and some other shooting suspicions I have. I was very careful in getting an average weight, and all loads are not more then .01 different then the others. Just to double check I even weighed some of the tubes to compare them. And they were equal.
If it don't rain tomorrow, I might just do some field shooting on my own to see what happens. My new shooting platform/rest I bought will be here tomorrow along with a couple hundred new sabots, and it will give me a chance to test that as well.
Are those Chrony .. chronographs any good they sell at Midsouth Shooters Supply?