With the additional week of Bama and two weeks of Florida muzzle loader season I want to buy one. I want a .50 cal simple loading, simple cleaning at the best value. This will be used also (with supervision) by my grandsons ages 13 and 15 also. Any preferences out there?

Some might think this is a strange recommendation but I would suggest a .54 caliber Lyman Trade Rifle. All you need to use for projectiles is roundball. More then deadly out to 100 yards. Simple to lead as there are no sabots or projectiles to figure out. Dump 90 grains of Pyrodex RS down the barrel, and seat a patched roundball. Since you're starting out and have grandchildren I would suggest a cap lock. This is all the muzzleloader you would need.

The Lyman Trade Rifle will shoot conical if you want to go after bigger game, and mine even shoots powerbelts very well. Mine is a flintlock model, but I'd start with a caplock. (percussion)

Sidelocks are no harder to clean then an inline. In fact I think I can clean a sidelock faster then an inline. You flush the barrel, clean the lock, re-oil it and assemble it again.

Also starting with a traditional rifle will give them a different kind of appreciation for the sport. A traditional is a good starting rifle. They are also recoil friendly since you can load them down and still shoot roundball real accurate.

If it is an inline rifle you want, then get a T/C Omega. For the money, it is a rifle that will last you a life time, and your grandchildren as well. They normally tune in real fast with 100 grains of powder and a 250 grain Shockwave. You can add a scope, they have 209 ignition so they are good about shooting and going off in any kind of weather, they have great resale should you decide down the road you want something different also. Simply because your grandchildren are going to shoot it, then get a Simms Recoil pad and put that on the rifle. It will make it more shooter friendly for them. Also get one with a laminated stock and the extra weight will take the bit out of them as well.

Also don't think the Omega can't be loaded down, but accuracy might suffer a little. I shoot roundball for plinking all the time out of inline rifles with good accuracy and 60 grains of powder (which at close range would be a deer load).

If money is an issue and you just want something that will shoot very well and be a good quality rifle. Then look at the Winchester Apex or CVA Kodiak. Many of the members here have them and report excellent accuracy. They are normally more reasonable then a Omega.

I pretty much agree with Cayugad; however, I just checked the regulations in an older publication and if things have not changed both Florida and Alabama allow smokeless powder in muzzleloaders. This opens up the possibility for using a Savage since it is the only production muzzleloader that is reasonable in price that can shoot smokeless. It might be a bit more complex due to the bolt and intermediate insert that Savage uses. If you plan on a lot of shooting and hunting and don't want to have to clean immediately after shooting,the Savage with smokeless is another option. If my state allowed smokeless I would probably have a Savage as well as the other six or seven muzzleloaders that I have. This sport becomes very addictive. Smokeless powder in muzzleloaders is a little more critical that no mistakes are made when measuring powder. You can shoot the normal black powder and substitute powders in the Savage also but if not using it for smokeless there are other rifles that are a better choice as mentioned already.

Some recommendations of mine are the TC Omega, TC Black Diamond, NEF Sidekick, Lyman Mustang, Knight Revolution, and Knight Wolverine. I feel that for the money, these are the best you can buy. All mentioned will serve you well, be very accurate, and last a lifetime. They are simple to load and clean. I own a TC Wods Rifle(cheap Black Diamond) and a TC Omega. I absolutely love both guns and don't think it gets much better than the Omega. Cabelas has them for $300 right now, which is very reasonable. I got mine for $260 in blue/black with discounts. Look at local Wal Marts. You might get lucky and find a cheap Omega or something.

You should look into those guns and do some resarch. All are top of the line and will please you. Buy whichever gun you feel is best. Good luck getting your nephews into the sport. I am 15 myself and have been MLing for 3 years approx. You'll get hooked--guaranteed.

By the way, some people do have great luck with CVA Kodiak MLers. You should look at it as an option. Good luck deciding.

You can get some great deals on Knights right now. Yes they are a little more trouble to clean. Yes they will shoot just as good as anything else out ther. Plus after they take the Knight apart a few times they will have a better understanding of how a ML works. But there are a lot of options out there. One of my grandsons shoots my old TC Hawkins and always selects it instead of 4 other ML that are inlines with a scope. Cayaqad has a good idea in his post about the Lymans. ML.

sportsmans guide has some good deals on knights right now and if you want a cheap one they got a buckhorn for 49.95 get get no cheaper than that

http:/http://www.sportsmansguide.com/ctlg/ctlg_index.asp?cid=245/www.sportsmansguide.com/ctlg/ctlg_index.asp?cid=245 sign up for email specials knight revolution 50 cal with nikon 1x20 scope starting at $169.95

Yep, the Sportsman's Guide has some excellent deals! They have those Revolution's at crazy cheap prices.

Like normal, most of the items that they have on "special" are sold out. I can get the Nikon Scope 1X from my local Gunsmith for the same$169.00 price, and he will even mount the thing on the rifle of my choice. If you look close, the actual rifle is well over $300.00 for the only model left in stock. Sportsman's Guide posts are sometimes deceiving.

For some crazy reason both of my local gun shops are saying goodbye to the Knight brand ML's. They say they can't sell them now that TC has taken over the market. A while backI couldn't even get them to order me the TK 2000 Knight ML shotgun. I hate to see this but it is their business. They had 2 50 cal Master Hunters w/scopes and a bipod for under $400,
You might check around locally and se if they have any left in your area.