With APP or Gold you will get better results without any swabbing. With 777 it is much better to swab every shot other wise you run inti the problem of not getting the sabot or bullet all the way down on the powder sooner or later. Pyrodex varies with the gun or load usually 3-5 shots and it is the most consistant in a wide range of weather conditions. Black Mag has an excellant reputation but I dont have much personial experance with it. Lee

I've got a pound of 777 and haven't had a chance to shoot any. Even so, I've noticed denser fouling in area just where and under the place the bullet seats with any powder I've ever used. I guess the fouling of 777 tends to be harder in some cases than in others.

In any event, I'll not argue for or against questioning the recommendations of safety in the manual. Nor will I advise against following them in any context. That is everyone's own personal choice and in most cases tempered by knowledge and safety checks to balance that risk. My father and I determined that swabbing is part of safety. We came to this conclusion after noticing that recoil can be substantially higher with maxi-balls when we tried to continue loading without swabbing. The manual in those days anyways said unusual recoil for the bullet/load was a warning sign. We took the manual for its word and began swabbing between shots.

Pqlasqow when you start using that 777 I would suggest you swab between shotsI have never experienced the "crud ring" in any of the 3
muzzys I own. Also noticed that first shot from a clean barrel shoots
right into the group with Pyro RS first shot was way outside the group

Yes, obviously Plasgow if you can't get the bullet seated on the powder you'd better clean it. I for one have never noticed a problem with loading in 30 shots when using Pyrodex or APP.

For the record, I am all for swabbing. I was just sharing that assessment of mine. You seemed to sugest that the barrel would blow up without cleaning before soI just offered my knowledge in that. If you don't think it's true then fine but I have tried it and it doesn't sound like you have.

For the record, most of the time when I don't swab, it's with the APP> Have you tried it? It doesn't foul up the bore as much and doesn't make it very hard to load.

As Lemoyne pointed out, you don't want to do any swabbing with APP or Jim Shockey Gold. It introduces an undesireable variable into the process, and bullets seem to actually seat easier if you don't swab.

"It introduces an undesireable variable into the process, and bullets seem to actually seat easier if you don't swab."


Swabbing can lead to an awful hardcrud in the rear two or three inches of the barrel that has to be removed with a wire brush on a cleaning rod. i mean this stuff is hard to get out.

It's never been a problem for me ifI clean the gun soon after. I did have problems when using Pyrodex and not swabbing so don't try using that. I have NEVER had a problem with the APP asI mentioned and should have mentioned that I used that most of the time earlier.

I found put real quick that I need to use 1damp and 2 dry or I cannot seat a sabot all the way. i am using T7 100 gr and 250 SW with a Win T7 209.

I use two patches of bore butter and work the crud ring at the bottom of the barrel. I turn over the patchalso, so in effect the bore is getting stroked 4 times, working it up and down. I don't use a lot of butter and I don't dry patch. TC says this about cleaning a ML rifle from their web site. Chap Gleason Va