Pglasgow

I think the humidity is very important. Out West, where the humidity is usually low, we should have less problems with charges getting moist from temperature variations. I would think when and where a rifle is loaded makes a difference as well. For example, if the rifle is loaded outside in conditions where the temp of the air is below dewpoint, I would think the load could stand more variation in temp. The worst would be if one heats his home with catylitic heaters or wood burning stove and loads in the warm house where humidity has a dew point way above the outside temps.

sabotloader

Pglasgow

In this particular case this gun was loaded in the house with warm powder 68f, the hunidity in the house runs at 50% (actually 46%) when the gun was loaded. The powder was in my in my range box sitting on the floor in the rec-room, probabably had been there a week or so before that spent all hunting season the the back seat of the truck.

When the gun was loaded a muzzle mitt and a dead 209 primer were loaded and it went directly outside to 32F degrees67% humidity from there you can follow the test

I like you, I think, believe humidity was the big point - not condensation... Although all the days the gun was outside it was 70+% humidity. One other factor I am not sure about is the failure of T7 powder to deform - enlarge - melt - or what ever in water. If the water was turbulant it sertainly would but just poured in water it maintains it shape and looks like a pile of T7 granuales even after 24 hours. I wonder - and certainly do not know is it coated with something that is some what impervious to humidity?????? Why does it stay together and hold it's shape?????

Do you have any black powder? and/or Pyro? - if you do ran this experiment for me.... 3/4 onces of warm water in a container - drop in 1/2 teaspoon of powder - let the whole thing sit without disturbance for a few hours and tell what you have. T7 after this long did retain its' shape but any distrubance of the water would certainly cause it turn disineigrate and turn the water black...

just thinking - and I know that's bad....

Pglasgow

I don't think that thinking is bad . Its a good thing. I do have black powder and I do have Pyro. I'll do the test you request and report the outcome when complete.

There is another thing which might muddy the water. Aside from humidity there is the variable of elevation. The air is much denser at say 900 ft. than it is at 8000 ft. I don't "know" that the denser air can hold more weight of water vapor at a given temp than the less dense air, but I suspect it can. If this is the case, then 50% humidity at 900 ft elevation isn't exactly the same as 50 % humidity at 8000 ft. Again, just thinking.

Pglasgow

OK. Pyro P just sank right to bottom and began to dissolve. Within a few minutes the granular appearance transformed to a melted appearance. I shook the container, its just a slurry.

The 3fg Goex. A whole different story, at least in the beginning. The powder just pretty much floated. I think some went below but even 15 minutes later (right now) the majority is still floating. A thin layer of graphite has skinned the surface. The graphite seems to be acting as a water repellent keeping the powder "dry" so to speak. I'll tell you guys what it looks like in the morning.

lemoyne

Does any one happen to know if the new TC Triumph has a seal hopefully an O ring on the 209? Lee

sabotloader

Pglasgow

There is NO float in T7 - it sinks right to the bottom - stays in its' little inverted cone pile...

With the GOEX is it the charcoal that is causing the floating? I wonder...

Even with the T7 some small amount if charcoal came to the surface - they have to make T7 smoke some how - so they add charcoal.

Pglasgow

It sank as I carried it to the garage. The powder easily dissolved by agitating. The graphite continued to float on the surface in a shiny film. Don't know if that gives you any answers.

Pglasgow

Dang, I thought I'd already posted some other remarks. I deleted them. Here goes . . .

After an hour and a half a good portion of powder still floated but the water appeared to have made its way under the graphite. So the powder corns look as though they were wet (kind of a plumpness)but no water could actually be seen because of the graphite on its its surface. I wondered whether any portion of the powder could be ignited.

As far as why the powder floated? Surface tension, the powder is itself heavier than water, I think. Because of the graphite, the water couldn't get to the powder to wet (adhere to)it, which would have allowed the powder to pierce the surface tension. The stuff on the surface is definitely not charcoal, its graphite. Dark shiny grey, definitely graphite riding in the surface film of the water. So much it wasn't possible to peer through it to observe the powder beneath the surface.