im tired of missing hunting days because i have no muzzle loader, i want a cheaper, but good muzzle loader,i know pretty much nothing about them, im pretty sure you can put scopes on them, right? also what cal. should i get, dont want my shoulder knocked off, but dont want to lose deer, links showing guns would be nice! just remember, small budget

If budget is the most important factor rush down to your local walmart. They have had all of their black powder stuff on sale for weeks now so if they have anything left it should be really marked down now.

I agree with walmart. I got a cva bobcat for 50 bucks and i'm currently still well under 100 bucks and I have everything I could possibly need for quite some time.

Being a new person to muzzleloading, keep it simple. A CVA Bobcat would work fine for you. As for an inline,

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=792897 something like that might do you. Look at the different rifles on the sites. See which ones you like and then which ones you can afford. Since you were talking a scope, you would probably want to go inline.

CVA BuckHorn is $99 at Walmart if you can find one that still has one. I don't know where you are, but my dad told me that a couple of Walmarts in Alabama still have them. They also still have some CVA Kodiaks and Optimas for $129-$154. I wanted to get the Bobcat for $50 but they have been long gone.

The CVA Buckhorn or CVA Kodiak are great guns. The TC Black Diamond is another great one for cheaper as well as the NEF Sidekick. You can find all of them at cabelas.com. You can put scopes on all of them but in our state it's illegal during ML season. You should check on yours. I recommend a .50 caliber for sure. It will be much easier to find gear for it and it is the most versatile. Good luck!! I hope you get into the wonderful world of muzzleloading.

Oh, by the way. Look for a TC Woods Rifle at Wal Mart. I got mine for 110 bucks and it's a great gun. It's basically a cheapened Black Diamond.

I just bought a NIB Knight .45 for around $150.However, I also think you would be better off with a .50. There are alot more bullets of various weights available for them. But if you did go for a .45 you could use the 200gr SST or a conical bullet.

Bloodsaw

If I could I would suggest you PM Cayugad - he has several well written instructions for a beginning ML shooter - everything from loading to cleaning to shooting...

As for the rifle to choose it all depends on the rules in your state or hunting area and the amount of money you want to spend. I would also suggest it is better to save a bit and get a good ML, especially if you are a serious rifle hunter - you already have huge expectatiuons for performance of a gun - so I would suggest not to purchase the bottom end at least get some where in the middle - if not a real good one.

Muzzleloading is addictive - you might as well learn that now and you are hearing from a life-long centerfire hunter... and I am old...

To get started any of the Walmart guns would be fine to "test the waters" and see if you like ML.

For scopes, selecting and buying a ML see:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

For bullet selection:
http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/EditorsView.html

Another thought is to buy a good used gun, there are several here that sound like good values:
http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/813usedblkpowderguns.htm

especially any TC firearm. They fix any problems no questions asked is the word on the "street/forum".

For cheap, safe, non portableTreestands to hunt from try these:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/low_cost_tree_stands_for_hunting.htm

For power, start with pellets since your new, but then go to loose since it is cheaper, better iginition and you can load 80g no problem.

Oh, for a good ML booking buy and read this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0873419510/qid=1114882877/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-8867395-7390420?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Best to also have a friend show you the ropes of MLing.

I hope this helps you join the MLing "band of brothers".
Chap Gleason Va