Apex's first outing
12-16-2006, 07:17 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
Apex's first outing
Well took the Apex out today.
Oh my! She's a shooter and a keeper.
I have to be honest, I just didn't see all the hoopla about inline muzzleloading until today. Wow. What a pleasure it was.
I decided to follow what I preach and shoot some conicals to start. I shot 270 ballets with 80 3f Goex. Prior to shooting the Apex I shot 375 SSB's out of the Sidekick with 80 gr 3f Goex. I was surprised find as much recoil from the Apex as the Sidekick because the Apex is heavier and the Ballet is lighter. The only explanation I can give is that the Sidekick had an additional recoil pad on her and the extra barrel length of the Apex lead to higher muzzle velocities than I would normally get from the Sidekick with the same load. I didn't chrony the load but I might tomorrow.
I set a target at 25 yards and set the elevation the first major grad from bottom. I wanted to see what the drop per grad is for the open sights. I shot three shots, all touched. Then I moved the rear sight 3 major grads. There are 3 minor grads per major grad on the Apex rear sight. Shot 3 more times, again 3 touching holes, 2 almost right on top the other. 9 minor grads lifted point of impact 4.5 inches at 25 yards. This is precisely 2 MOA per grad. So one minor grad is 1/2 inch at 25 yards, 1" at 50 yards, 1.5" at 75 yards, and of course 2" at 100 yards. Perfect!
Did some more fine tuning with the sights. The final 3 shots were a 2" group at 75 yards (a little under 3 MOA). This with the fiber optic sights which is basically what I get from the sidekick. I am very impressed cuz I'm not that great a shot, no bags, just resting on carpet laid over a boulder.
This is gonna be my load, I think, for my hunt in OK next week with my dad. Was planning to takethe sidekick, but the Apex will get the pleasure if the opportunity is afforded me to discharge the rifle at game.
What impressed me most is that I had ZERO blowback. When I brought the rifle home, I dropped the breech and show my wife. She said, "I though you were going out to shoot". I said, "I did,, I did" . The breech was totally clean. I am so not worried about the firing pin mech and the scope I'll be puttin on her. What a pleasure it was to shoot. Every time I dropped the breech, POP!, out came the 209 , I didn't have to dig or pry, literally never touched a 209 to remove it from the breech plug.
Looking forward to posting more as I learn more. But this is pretty much it for now.
Oh my! She's a shooter and a keeper.
I have to be honest, I just didn't see all the hoopla about inline muzzleloading until today. Wow. What a pleasure it was.
I decided to follow what I preach and shoot some conicals to start. I shot 270 ballets with 80 3f Goex. Prior to shooting the Apex I shot 375 SSB's out of the Sidekick with 80 gr 3f Goex. I was surprised find as much recoil from the Apex as the Sidekick because the Apex is heavier and the Ballet is lighter. The only explanation I can give is that the Sidekick had an additional recoil pad on her and the extra barrel length of the Apex lead to higher muzzle velocities than I would normally get from the Sidekick with the same load. I didn't chrony the load but I might tomorrow.
I set a target at 25 yards and set the elevation the first major grad from bottom. I wanted to see what the drop per grad is for the open sights. I shot three shots, all touched. Then I moved the rear sight 3 major grads. There are 3 minor grads per major grad on the Apex rear sight. Shot 3 more times, again 3 touching holes, 2 almost right on top the other. 9 minor grads lifted point of impact 4.5 inches at 25 yards. This is precisely 2 MOA per grad. So one minor grad is 1/2 inch at 25 yards, 1" at 50 yards, 1.5" at 75 yards, and of course 2" at 100 yards. Perfect!
Did some more fine tuning with the sights. The final 3 shots were a 2" group at 75 yards (a little under 3 MOA). This with the fiber optic sights which is basically what I get from the sidekick. I am very impressed cuz I'm not that great a shot, no bags, just resting on carpet laid over a boulder.
This is gonna be my load, I think, for my hunt in OK next week with my dad. Was planning to takethe sidekick, but the Apex will get the pleasure if the opportunity is afforded me to discharge the rifle at game.
What impressed me most is that I had ZERO blowback. When I brought the rifle home, I dropped the breech and show my wife. She said, "I though you were going out to shoot". I said, "I did,, I did" . The breech was totally clean. I am so not worried about the firing pin mech and the scope I'll be puttin on her. What a pleasure it was to shoot. Every time I dropped the breech, POP!, out came the 209 , I didn't have to dig or pry, literally never touched a 209 to remove it from the breech plug.
Looking forward to posting more as I learn more. But this is pretty much it for now.
12-16-2006, 07:44 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: Apex's first outing
ORIGINAL: cayugad
Well congratulation on a great shooter. Sounds like you have it all under control and will have a wonderful rifle. Good luck on your next shoot as well.. Good luck hunting too.
Well congratulation on a great shooter. Sounds like you have it all under control and will have a wonderful rifle. Good luck on your next shoot as well.. Good luck hunting too.
As far as hunting, I'll probably need all the help I can get ! Sure hope I harvest one andmaybe recover a 270 ballet.
12-16-2006, 07:48 PM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Apex's first outing
Those ball-ets are a real good load.
I have a friend that shoots a Wolverine and all he has ever used is 270 gr ball-ets. He gets his couple deer every year and he once bragged that 90 grains of Pyrodex and a ball-et dropped them faster then his 30-06. I told him that's because he took his time and made sure he placed his shot with the ball-et. He just smiled and said, that might be true.
I have a friend that shoots a Wolverine and all he has ever used is 270 gr ball-ets. He gets his couple deer every year and he once bragged that 90 grains of Pyrodex and a ball-et dropped them faster then his 30-06. I told him that's because he took his time and made sure he placed his shot with the ball-et. He just smiled and said, that might be true.
12-16-2006, 08:05 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: Apex's first outing
ORIGINAL: cayugad
Those ball-ets are a real good load.
I have a friend that shoots a Wolverine and all he has ever used is 270 gr ball-ets. He gets his couple deer every year and he once bragged that 90 grains of Pyrodex and a ball-et dropped them faster then his 30-06. I told him that's because he took his time and made sure he placed his shot with the ball-et. He just smiled and said, that might be true.
Those ball-ets are a real good load.
I have a friend that shoots a Wolverine and all he has ever used is 270 gr ball-ets. He gets his couple deer every year and he once bragged that 90 grains of Pyrodex and a ball-et dropped them faster then his 30-06. I told him that's because he took his time and made sure he placed his shot with the ball-et. He just smiled and said, that might be true.
I can hardly wait
.
12-16-2006, 10:37 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: Apex's first outing
ORIGINAL: outdoorslover
Dang, I'm starting to get talked into this gun. I'm not into that brand but I don't see why it wouldn't be worth the money. I'm definetely contemplating the purchase.
Dang, I'm starting to get talked into this gun. I'm not into that brand but I don't see why it wouldn't be worth the money. I'm definetely contemplating the purchase.
I just cleaned the rifle. As I thought, she cleaned easy. Keeps getting better. I want to scope her so bad I can not stand it. My scopes on back order. But with a 2" open sight group at 75 yards, I expect I will skinny that down to MOA with a scope. We will see . . .
12-17-2006, 09:11 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,037
RE: Apex's first outing
I am new to muzzleloading and purchased an Apex in late October. So far I've been happy with it. I've been using the 100 grains of the Triple Seven pellets and have been using 295 grain powerbelt and 300 grain superglide shockwaves. They seem to shoot about the same.
There is one thing I don't quite understand. In the manual it says that it is magnum capable and can shoot 150 grains of Triple Seven pellets. It also says not to use more than 100 grains of loose powder. I understand that you only need 85 percent of loose triple seven to equal the pellets. So if you take 85 percent of 150 you get 127.5 grains of loose. Why would it be ok to shoot 150 grains of the pellets but then you must limit yourself to 100 grains of the loose?
Its not that I think I need to shoot maximum loads. I bought some Triple Seven ff loose to try out and I plan on starting at about 85 grains and going up from there. If I want to be totally safe, (which I do), do I need to stop at 100.
Thanks,
Art
There is one thing I don't quite understand. In the manual it says that it is magnum capable and can shoot 150 grains of Triple Seven pellets. It also says not to use more than 100 grains of loose powder. I understand that you only need 85 percent of loose triple seven to equal the pellets. So if you take 85 percent of 150 you get 127.5 grains of loose. Why would it be ok to shoot 150 grains of the pellets but then you must limit yourself to 100 grains of the loose?
Its not that I think I need to shoot maximum loads. I bought some Triple Seven ff loose to try out and I plan on starting at about 85 grains and going up from there. If I want to be totally safe, (which I do), do I need to stop at 100.
Thanks,
Art
12-17-2006, 10:32 AM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Apex's first outing
flounder33
Yep! you do if you want to comply with the manufactures standard and remain in the safe area. Part of the reasoning is human mistakes if they say 100 and you goof a little bit and get 110-120 you might be ok. but if you load 127 and goof you might not be so ok...
And then again if you go the to the Hodogons (spelling) web site you will see that their max laods are 100 grains...
One additional point - 100 grains of loose T7-2f is way hotter than 100 grains of T7 pellets - might be worth 110/115 grains of the pellets. Mt suggestion if you can make the switch to loose it is a better move... You will get more consistent loads.. Gosh one more thing very few modern ML's can burn more than 120 grains of powder any more than that and you will be shooting un-burnt powder out the barrel.
I bought some Triple Seven ff loose to try out and I plan on starting at about 85 grains and going up from there. If I want to be totally safe, (which I do), do I need to stop at 100.
And then again if you go the to the Hodogons (spelling) web site you will see that their max laods are 100 grains...
One additional point - 100 grains of loose T7-2f is way hotter than 100 grains of T7 pellets - might be worth 110/115 grains of the pellets. Mt suggestion if you can make the switch to loose it is a better move... You will get more consistent loads.. Gosh one more thing very few modern ML's can burn more than 120 grains of powder any more than that and you will be shooting un-burnt powder out the barrel.
12-17-2006, 11:20 AM
#10
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Apex's first outing
ORIGINAL: flounder33
There is one thing I don't quite understand. In the manual it says that it is magnum capable and can shoot 150 grains of Triple Seven pellets. It also says not to use more than 100 grains of loose powder. I understand that you only need 85 percent of loose triple seven to equal the pellets. So if you take 85 percent of 150 you get 127.5 grains of loose. Why would it be ok to shoot 150 grains of the pellets but then you must limit yourself to 100 grains of the loose?
Its not that I think I need to shoot maximum loads. I bought some Triple Seven ff loose to try out and I plan on starting at about 85 grains and going up from there. If I want to be totally safe, (which I do), do I need to stop at 100.
Thanks,
Art
There is one thing I don't quite understand. In the manual it says that it is magnum capable and can shoot 150 grains of Triple Seven pellets. It also says not to use more than 100 grains of loose powder. I understand that you only need 85 percent of loose triple seven to equal the pellets. So if you take 85 percent of 150 you get 127.5 grains of loose. Why would it be ok to shoot 150 grains of the pellets but then you must limit yourself to 100 grains of the loose?
Its not that I think I need to shoot maximum loads. I bought some Triple Seven ff loose to try out and I plan on starting at about 85 grains and going up from there. If I want to be totally safe, (which I do), do I need to stop at 100.
Thanks,
Art
Also if you look on a Hodgdon's Powder web site, it might interest you to know they do not suggest 150 grain loads with pellets. Try and find velocity numbers on 150 grain loads. You will normally have to look at someone individual who did the testing over a chronograph on their own.