Right now I am leaning towards the Kodiak 1. it is on sale for $150.00 2. The store has a couple in stock. Looking around the area there are few stores with MLs in stock and on sale. Maybe it will drop more after X-Mas

halvtaz,

I was thinking the same thing and then bought the Apex. The blued Apex is being sold for $179. They've reduced the price $150 dollars. The stainless is $199, a price reduction of $200 dollars. Now that I have handled the Apex, Walmart would have to reduce the Kodiak substantially before I would opt for it instead. You are going spend many times the cost of the rifle in bullets and powder, make sure you get as good a rifle as your budget will afford.

Where is the Apex on sale at. Haven't seen it any stores around where I live at that price yet.

www.cabelas.com has the apex on sale. I think you'd be better off with the apex than the kodiak. Better quality.

halvtaz

Check my post on the first page - you will find the sale at Cabelas - mail order.... although again I would say if you can afford the extra $80 the TC $279 Omega Z5 blue/blackwould be possibly the better buy - lifetime warranty on everything in the gun and value we stay put for future dealings.

And in realality you can get the Omega Z5 for less than that @ other locations...

My local Walmart sold out of the Z-5'sat $249. I called to the one the next town over (hoping I could buy one there for $249) and they were sold out. So if one snoozes, they loozes.

Now that I have handled the Apex, though, I'm not too dissapointed. I got to use my cabelas points and got a stainless barrel. Its also supposed to have a lifetime warranty though I would certainly agree that T/C's warranty would probably be better served.To have gotten a stainless barrel in an Omega, I would have spent twice what I did so I guess I could trade my warranty, even though I still have one, for a second stainless apex. I just might do that if they don't run out. I want to shoot it first to see just what a shooter it is before I spend my remaining points on another. If I get another, the sidekick is going to begifted tosomeone.

Oh and one other thing. I would consider it "VERY UNLIKELY" that either the blued barrel of the APEX or the blue barrel of the OMEGA have greater tensile strength metal than the STAINLESS APEX. If a person is at all concerned with Spanish Steel, it would be almost impossible for them to produce a stainless alloy weaker than most any typical blackpowder rifle's with a blued barrel. For me, takes the worry completely away.

Just because it is "stainless" does not guarantee that it is stronger than standard american rifle barrel steel. There are possibliities for voids in any steel and stainless is just as prone to that as chrome moly steel (possibly a little more prone). I'm sure your stainless Apex is just fine and didn't mean to start another long argument but stainless is not a "magic" term.

Isnt moststeel imported now? I know the US still makes steel and all but mainly sell to china, exe. Finding anything that actually is made in america is suprising. As for the barrels made in spain, you dont rule out an entire brand due to one rifle coming out with a bad barrel. A lot of people keep saying they are exploders, show me a Recent incident. I have not been able to find any. hpmuzzleloading only mentions the cva apollo. Itsa thing of the past. Sure a rifle maybe explode due to the loader not doing something right, but that doesnt mean its the companies fault. I just found a picture and article on hpmuzzleloading with a young kid shooting a cva with triple 7 powder and a 400 grain slug. Its a thing of the past, move on. If you know that its been more than one style of rifle, feel free to update us all. MLkeith, this isnt for you ok? i dont mean to come off like im taking a shot at you but im interested in everyone that has knowledge of any other rifles besides the Apollo that were known for exploding.

I certainly doubt its stronger than a heat treated 4140 barrel. Certainly wouldn't compare the steel any ML rifle (other than theSavage)to a high powered rifle's steel. BTW. I didn't say the word american anywhere, if you check again, you will see that. My statement wasn't regarding american anything. The steel any ordinary blued "Muzzle Loading" barrel, even an american made one, wouldn't typically be as strong, in tensile strength, as weakest Stainless alloy I am aware of. I know for a fact that the stainless of both my Sidekick and my Apex is of greater tensile strength than the steel of my T/C hawken.Furthermore, I'm 99.99% certain that the Stainless Apex has stronger steel thanthe TCOmega with Blued barrel.Considering the fact that the TC Omaga is a full 1.25 lbs lighter than an Apex, I also wouldn't be surprised if the dimensional properties of the Omega would not support equal pressures with the APEX given this one caveat. The steel of the Apex must be as strong as the Omega. Since I am perfectly convinced that the steel of a stainlessApex is stronger than the steel of an blued omega, I think it likely thatthe Stainless Apex's barrel could support more pressure than a bluedOmega.

I've got no reason to suspect that there are voids in the steel of the Apex any more than I have reason to suspect that there are voids in my sidekick or hawken.

Basically, I think its senseless to worry about the strength of the steel in a Spanish made Stainless muzzleloader. I think the fear is unreasonable andserves no purposefor safety. Ifeveryone wanted to pitch inand put a Stainless Apex against a Blued Omega with an independent lab, we could put to rest the actual properties and strengths of the steels used and even blow them up.I certainly couldn'tand wouldn't argue withrealresults from people who have nothing to gain from the outcome of the science. I personally don't think that I can "take for granted" that the bluedOmega is stronger or capable of withstanding more pressure than the Stainless Apex.