Thanx Cayugad... I was comtemplating giving some of the APP a try.. but now I won't waste my $$$.

Maybe I have not found the magic formula to making it work. You might get it and have it shoot perfect. When I used to shoot Clean Shot in 2f that stuff shot just fine. Maybe I will have to get a pound of the 2f and see how that behaves.. Until then I will stick to the Triple Se7en, Pyrodex, and Goex.

Cayugad there are a couple problems here: (1) This stuff doesn't perform well in traditional rifles. The coarse grains and high ignition temp make it less than ideal. I used to shoot 3f APP through my hawken for awhile before switching back to Pyrodex recently for more positive ignition and power(it was worth the mess). It takes too long for the APP to get fired and going to deliver much power and accuracyin a sidelock. Although, it does perform quite well with hot 209 primers in inline rifles. (2) Your grain is 3f. The answer for me with APP has been 2f in not only my 2 inlines but one my friends inlines also when we were experimenting. I'm just passing the tips that I've already hassled through myself My omega/kodiak prefer a 120gr charge and a 250gr shockwave; this groups under 2" consistently. Also, don't swab; I only swab once every 3 shot group, and shoot on a dry barrel the first after that.

what mess does pyrodex have? i clean out my rifle with 4 to 5 patches on an average. last month i shot 9 shots total and it took 6 patches, and that includes the patch to oil the barrel. Nice thread tho, i almost bought some APP myself .. I'll stick to what works for me now.

Mess=swab between shots for easy and consistent shooting. Mess=6 patches instead of2.

Only Mr. Gander would insinuate that Pyrodex fouls as cleanly as other subs. Those six patches for an entire cleaning with Pyrodex must be an attribute toMr. Gander'sTraditions Kentucky bore wall linings-quality that removes the Pyrodex filth so easily & effectively.

Don't ever do a non-thorough job cleaning Pyrodex fouling Mr. Gander. It's the most corrosive blackpowder substituteavailable. It's even more corrosive than real blackpowder.It's as dirty as real blackpowder - fouls as much & attacks unproperly cleaned nooks& crannies on the barrel's exterior -- turning it to rust -in days - not weeks.

But there is good news with Pyrodex. It's very reasonably priced & one of the most overall & accurate blackpowder subs.


Thompson Center Arms -- Triple Se7en Powder -- Buffalo Bullet Co.

I got much better accuracy from the APP FFg than I did with the APP FFFG.

I'm glad to see this post. It confirms the experience I had.

actually triple, my traditions is a flintlock and only a moron would try to shoot any new powder in a flintlock. Been there done that, but only because i had no choice at the time. And i never said pyrodex cleaned out easier than any other sub, i stated that i have no problems with pyrodex build up and it wipes out easily for me. Wouldnt you rather run 5 patchs than spend $26 on powder that doesnt work for you? By the way, in the other post u referred to yourself as an expert. What makes you an expert? Besides you agreeing with what other people say and besides you buying powder/ bullets and other rifles with your own money. If you were a real expert, these places would be GIVING you these items. Got any books or movies out? Make any of your own rifles from scratch like Experts do? Those ready built kits dont count. As to my post about pyrodex, i just stated that i dont really ever get any build up with pyrodex. What ever they use on the greta plains bullets really seems to cut it down a lot. As for my kentucky which u were referring to earlier, i used goex 3f in it and after scrubbing out witha brush and about 7-8 patchs " depending on how many shots i take" Its as clean as a whistle. Give her a squirt of rem oil on a patch, swab it down, and run 1 more dry patch and im finished. Oh are you an expert because you buy TC?

I think what Triple 7 is trying to tell you here is that these quick clean jobs are eventually going to ruin your barrel. It has happened to several friends of mine. You can get away with the non-thorough routine a few times; but at some point you are going to have to do the hot soapy water thing with detailed cleaning and follow it up with light oil. Even stainless guns can't resist the corrosive properties of real black powder, Pyrodex, and most other substitutes for long. We are trying to help you here - provide the benefit of experience.

Back to the subject: I'm using 2F Jim Shockey Gold (premium APP from what I understand)and am very satisfied with it so far. Good groups - consistent zero. I'm using an inline gun with shotgun primers, and the new platinum powerbelts. I also got good results with Shockwaves in my Black Diamond XR. Hard to believe the 3F is that erratic, or hard to ignite for that matter. I'm still wondering if Cayugad got a bad batch of powder.

You would not believe the number of morons who only use FFFF in the pan -- then powders like 777 FFF for the remaining powder load. You really are green behind the ears.

Yes you did insiunuate that! Did you not brag that you can clean with 5 patches of Pyrodex?

Just the opposite is occuring! You are the minority here. Pyrodex sales are way-way down. ML shooters are paying 777, APP, Pinnacle, Shockey-prices at an unbelievable rate. The ones that aren't are still buying real blackpowder instead. What's keeping Pyrodex in the black is their pellet powder options.

Please copy & paste that post here. But promise me this first? If you are lying, then please go away. You are an inexperienced MLing imbecile thatgets under the collar ofexperienced MLauthors, writers, reviewers and ML teacherswho read your ridiculousposts.

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Thompson Center Arms -- Triple Se7en Powder -- Buffalo Bullet Co.