Hi All,

I'm a new muzzleloader in Washington State and have been working through all the rifle/powder/bullet options available and legal to shoot in my state. Many thanks to all posting here as I've learned more reading this forum than eveything combined on all the muzzleloader company web sites. I'll be going for deer first and if all goes well will try elk next year too.

I'm planning toget one of the White Ultra Mags ifavailable or perhaps a Knight bighorn/wolverine if none are left. What's confusing me is what powder to use - given Wa Fish & Wildlife regs, I assume no smokeless (muzzleloader) rifles are legal ...

At first I figured to use Triple 7 powder as its reportedly better then Pyrodex, but then read Triple 7 leaves some crud ring (roughly at the powder to projectile interface I recall). I've heard about Goex and the newerBlack Max (I think that's the name!) being slightly better than Triple 7?

I'll probably start off w/ the medium grain conicals, but will also check out the highly recommended Buffalo SSBs too. What powder do you all use in similar conditions and why?Any reduced cleaning, ease of (re)loading, and/or follow up accuracydetails aremost welcome.

thanks again!
phil

Triple Se7en does leave a crud ring IN SOME RIFLES. I shoot it in the White Ultra Mag and have not noticed the problem even on the 10th shot without swabbing the barrel. When I finally do swab, there is a little something down there, but nothing a swabbing can not take out.

Smokeless powder is illegal in many states, Triple Se7en, and the others are not smokeless. You could always shoot Goex 3f out of a White if you want, and still get excellent accuracy.

The Ultra Mag in you case would be an excellent choice. If scopes are illegal, they are tapped on the side for a Lyman 57SME peep sight for those of you that still need to shoot long distances.

In my White Ultra Mag I shoot Triple Se7en fffg. 75 grains of it with a double wad and then a big 460 grain conical and it will really shoot. I also shoot sabots and load them with 100 grains of Triple Se7en or Goex 3f.

In my Knight Wolverine, I shoot 100 grains of Goex 3f and a number of different sabots with excellent results. If I want to shoot SSB's I then use the White or my Black Diamond.

There are a lot of projectiles out there to choose from. Welcome to the forum..

First of all welcome. Second, Try a bunch of different loads until you find one your particular gun likes. Once you find that gun the very helpful people on this forum will point you in the right direction. They have helped me out a bunch and always seem to do it with enthusiasm.

Welcome to the group Philnie,their are quite a few different powders available and many different opinions on what is the best. There are even a few people around that support certain brands ect as part of their livelihood. You will find that different guns even though they appear the same, like different loads.
My self,I find pryodex to be very good for heavy lead bullets,its hard to beat good old black powder in that catagory to;I like APP for light and medium sabots[up to 300 gr] which is the heaviest I have ever used.
If I draw an elk tag this year I will be using a 250gr Shock Wave[bonded] with 140 gr of APP-FF. I used this bullet on a recent Boar hunt and was impressed with it[though I used 130 for the boar, no need for long rage whereI hunted] I can recommend that you try APP, Pinnacle, and pryodex as they have done a fine job for me.I do not have good luck with777 though some of the good people here like it,I prefer some thing like APP-FF thatI can get a quick reload and not have to clean between shots[I get horrable crud rings with 777 I can get at least 3 good accurate shots with anything else. Hope this helps Lee

Decide on the rifle you want first, then we will worry about the powder and projectiles..

philnie

For Washington State I do not think you could get a better rifle than the White Ultra Mag. It does meet all of the Washingto State rules...

BUT, if you are going to try to get one you had better hurry - there were four left in Utah and from there they really get skimpy... If you get a chance go to your nearest Sportsmans Guide and ask them to run a chain inventory check and see if they can track any left in the system.

Good luck - if you are fortunate enough to get one I do not think you will ever regret it.

Cayugad, as usual, is right pick up a gun and then worry about the other stuff.

From what I understand there were 4 at the Midvale, Utah Sporsman's. Two of those are on the way to me!!!!! I think there may be a few out there left other than those, but not sure.

Do a search on White Muzzleloaders and there are 2 sites. One has used guns that Doc has tweeked. They are guaranteed to shoot good or your money back. At least that's what they say.

Good luck.

Ok, thank you one and all!I was just cruising around Docs and White Rifles sites for more info ...

I'll call around and see if I can get a White Ultra Mag ... between you all on this forum and Doc himself helping out with any issues, I can't see how I'll go wrong with a White.

Yes cayugad, I'm planning on installing either a peep or ghost ringrear as I have a hard time shooting most anything else.My state's muzzloading requirements say no 209 primers, and must be both solid lead and no scope as well. Sabot's are ok though - and one must use a 50 cal for game bigger than deer.

Pellets sure seem convenient, but I understand the tradeoff between them and powder and conicals / sabots (and especially when using White rifles).Let me call around to the Sportsman' Guide tomorrow - I'm getting worried about their stock of Ultra Mags!

thanks again all!
phil

GOEX makes black powder, and sells "Pinnacle", a BP substitute made by American Pioneer, which also sells their own stuff. Both of these types of powder are similar, and cleaner than T7. I have heard that Black Mag3 is excellent, and will try some as soon as I can find it locally.

Another excellent (probably the best BP in the world) powder is Swiss Black Powder, a true BP with all the smoke & smell you need to sniffto become a truly addicted ML guy, but cleaning is a little moe difficult when you use a true black powder. Swiss is a "sporting rifle" powder, very powerful and accurate, and a trifle cleaner burning than GOEX.

And, contrary to what a lot of people say, Pyrodex is quite acceptable. I can shoot all afternoon with Pyrodex and not have to wipe the bore between shots, as MOST of the solids resulting from Pyrodex combustion are blown out of the barrel, whereas when using BP, most crap deposits itself on the inside surface of your gun's bore....

American Pioneer and Pinnacle are both quite clean, and cleaning your rifle after a days shooting is a snap with either of these powders.

ALL ML MUST be cleaned well on the same day you fire them, and both BP and Pyrodex require a lot more work to get all the fouling out of the bore and off of the external steel parts, which is absolutely mandatory to prevent rust.

I believe you will be pleased with a White!!