Lemoyne, are you using a dry patch or two after the 50/50 Alcohol-Windex solution?

In other words, is the bore bone dry?

Spit patch followed by dry patch or two does work well and does leave fouling residue in the bore. I can typically get slightly better groups with that procedure for targeting groups.

However, the Hunting POI (Point of impact) I zero on is from a 50/50 Alcohol-Windex cleaned bore.
My procedure to preparefor the hunting zero first and each subsequent shot whenis (After all oils are removed from the bore):
1) Damp (not drenched) spit/water patch down and up, flip and do again.
2) Damp (not drenched) 50/50 Alcohol-Windex patch down and up, flip and do again.
3) Dry patch down and up, flip and do again. I can tell if moisture is still in the bore as the dry patch will hang up a bit on the second time. If so then I run another dry patch process.
4) Load powder, then projectile.
5) If it's raining out or high humidity, run a lightly lubed natural lubed patch followed by a dry patch to control any flash rust that might occur during the day's hunt. If close to or below freezing or low humidity, then I don't bother with a lubed/dry patch after loading.
5) When fired, repeat the same procedure.
6) Repeat the exact same procedure.

What I am after is a very clean and consistant bore for each hunting zero and POI shot.

If I did not fire during a day's hunt and it's high humidity, then I discharge the load at the end of the day, detail clean in the evening and load fresh the next AM with the above procedure. If near or below freezing, then I un-prime and keep the ML stored in ambient outside temperature in a garage ,shed, or truck to keep the bore cold. Don't bring your coldML into room temperature if you are not going to detail clean it immediately.

The bore will draw condensation with the temperature change.

I will say the with the above procedure, the groups themselves are not always quite as tight as when target shooting using spit/dry patches. But, the group locations are always in the same POI area.

Which is what I want to rely on for hunting. I take heart, neck or head shots and I must be able to count on the POI area. I can live with 2" groups at 100 yards as most of my hunting is less than 150 yards.

I find that from a fouled bore the POI tends to increase (Raise)somewhat down range. Sometimes as much as 2-4 inches.

I know lots of guys that intentionally hunt from a fouled bore with great success. I also know that reloading on a fouled (or spit/dry patch) bore is also more difficult

Everyone has their own procedure that works for them.

With respect to a spit patch only. Your saliva has salts in it which can leave a flash rust in the bore during a day's hunt. Which is one of the reasons I don't use the spit patch onlyprocedure for hunting, only for target fun.



Regards,

Tahquamenon

[hr]

loading on a fowled bore difficult? ... You need my White Rifle. I swear the more dirty the bore gets the sweeter it shoots... Also I fowl my Knight Wolverine, then swab it before I hunt, as I get more consistent accuracy off the fowled bore. Why my Disc is not like that I have no idea. How many I wonder actually fowl their bore before going hunting? Might be an interesting poll.

As for the spit in a person's body, while I am sure it contains body salts.. I wonder if the concentration would be enough to pose a danger of rusting in a days time? That might make for an interesting experiment for someone...

This might be an interesting poll. When I first started using an in-line (Knight), it was recommended by Barnes to go afield with a fouled barrel. They indicated that the best accuracy is usually found in the third through seventh shot. Testing at the range confirmed this. But I hated running around with a fouled gun.

Later, over on CVA's old site, there was a poster called "Preacher" who extolled the virtues of swabbing. I have been using that technique ever since. I go afield with a clean dry barrel, and the point of impact remains unchanged if I swab in between shots - at least with the Shockwaves pushed by Pyrodex pellets or 2F Triple 7.

Cayugad, are you shooting conical's or sabot's in that White? If conical I'm not surprised that loading becomes easier and more accurate on a fouled bore.

I neglected to specify that I find that saboted projectiles are more difficult to load as the fouling in the bore increases which closed the bore diameter.

Now I re-want a White all over again... Perhaps next year.

Tahq - for the most part I am shooting conicals out of the White, although I've shot a number of sabots (I think seven in a row) and never swabbed the barrel. Underclocked taught me how to throw the old White Rifle bait out, and troll for another one .. get them all excited and interested and then hook them!! My White is a really good rifle SO FAR. I think you need one too....

Roskoe.. I remember Preacher on the old CVA site. I don't think many new about swabbing between shots before he started telling his shooting recommendations. In fact because of Preacher, I started using Rusty Duck Black Off which was one of his favorite cleaners.. Of course at that time I did not own a inline rifle yet. All I shot was traditional rifles.. Then was given the CVA Staghorn as a gift. Now its just plain out of control..

That was a good site, it seems like ages ago when I used to go over there. There were some great people there and most have moved over here as well.

On my fast twist barrels... The Wolverine and the Black Diamond XR always shot better fowled then clean. The Black Diamond XR will shoot almost an inch off at 100 yards on a clean barrel, so I fowl it. The Knight Disc does not seem to care all that much. The White really likes to be fowled. The CVA is not all that fussy about whether it is fowled, but I shoot most my hunting rifles fowled. My Green Mountain Barrels do not care if they are fowled but are actually about 1/4-1/2 inch difference on a clean barrel. My new CVA Stalker I have not decided.

And I still swab with the alcohol and windshield washer fluid in all of them.

I know Preacher was in pretty poor shape healthwise, hope he hasn't left us. Man was full of good info and definitely knew how to achieve accuracy. Seemed to be a nice person as well.

How about trying the alchohol straight up without the washing fluid?

I normally wipe between shots,and use two dry patches making sure the bore is bone dry. I have not tried pure Alk yet but proably will along with 75/25 for some reason the 75/25 looks good to me at least it will till I try it. If that dont work then I woll try mixing with windex or citrus type soap;I normally scrub with boiling water and citrus soap when cleaning at homeand so the same before hunting my guns have totally clean bores for hunting and are sighted in that way. I have never had a misfire in 42 years of hunting with a muzzle loader so i would say thats what works for me,my POI has always been right in the first group usually slightly 1 inch or less to the right.
I think their are some things to be learned in this sport yet, especally about cleaning solutions and mating them to different powders, I expect one of the next innovations with be a lubricant like we use on spinning lines to keep them from tangling or possably something like graphite sabots. Lee

lemoyne

I hve been following along reading all these replys but up now I did not feel that I should or could add my thoughts.

I honestly do not know why but for the past six years I have been using plain old everyday windex with ammonia. This solution on damp - not wet patch has really worked well for me. I am not shooting APP, but a long time ago I did shoot Clean Shot which is/was basically the same thing. It has and does really work well for me. It really works well at removing fouling. Of course one patch between shots will not remove it all but it does get a lot of it - but yet leaves the bore somewhat fouled.

My secret, if i have one, is not to have a wet patch - just damp enough to act as a lubricant but yet damp enough to pick the heavy fouling. I have not had a problem with misfires or hang fires at all using this method and in my case i do not see any differences in POI.

just my 2 bits....

Sabotloader,I have a friend at the range that uses a windex combo with good results,I tried the WW first to stay away from the amonia ifI could It can cause rust easier than anything else that I am using of course so can spit,but it looks like it will boil down to what works. Up till this point I had no idea that what I cleaned with would change my group size more than a 100%; it seems like no matter how long I have been shooting that the learning prosess is never ending. Lee