As far as charges go with the loose vs pellet pressure ratings I have been told that loose powder has a greater spike in pressure compared to pellets. Judging from my short lived stint with T7 pellets I would have to agree. Shooting a 265g bullet using the pellets gave a feel more like a centerfire .308 instead of the shock you usually get with the loose powder. Two 50g pellets felt like I was shooting an impotent load so I just went back to loose powder. I admit never giving the pellets a fair trial but I just don't like loading them you worry about crushing them or short starting to avoid crushing them.

With loose powder you don't have to worry about that. I load each of my rifles so different it is hard for me to tell anyone how to load theirs.

I do not blink at all shooting my Spanish guns.

Hey Catus Magnus I appreciate your concern about my bullet and powder combination. I've been using this for about 5 years plus now. I hunt elk here in utah and other states. I dont beleive I'm pushing my luck at all with this load and it is very effective with elk, deer, and antelope and I also beleive that dispatching your game as fast as humanely as possible is a very important thing to consider when choosing a hunting load. That is why I choose to shoot this combination.

You are making a great point Catus. There is a tendency to heavy charges. For most people, in most of their hunting situations, they are gainingnothing by going so heavy on the charge.A fast bullet and flat trajectory is"sexy" and "exciting" I guess. I am thankful for the push that way, though.Creating faster twist rates for the saboted rifle-type and longer pistol bullets also makes the modern inline better forthe heavier conicals.

BTW 100 grains RS and 385 conical is "more than you need" to 130 yards. You could go to 80 grains, if your rifle shoots well there, and get alot more milage from your powder and still have plenty of killing power.

Happy Hunting, Phil

Catus Magnus

I have not the greatest experiance with conicals, but i certainly would agree with pglasgow...

My CVA manuals for my Magbolt states 100gr max of loose powder with the recomended powders being Pyrodex or black. 150gr of pellets is also the max. When usinga maxload you are further restricted to a max of 400gr conicals/300gr sabot bullets.

In several communications with CVA over the years, when asked about 777 loose powder, they have consistently told me that 100gr was the max for loose. 777's slower burn rate seems to be the reason why it produces more velocity with similar pressure as other powders.

Also in my communications with CVA, the max bullet weight allowed is higher when limiting powder charges to 100gr. This includes bullets up to and including the heaviest PowerBelt (I believe that is 530gr for the 50).

If anyone is interested in using any of the loads implied in this post, please verify them with CVA before doing so. I did for my own sake and safety, you should do the same for yourself.

The difference between the pellet max and loose max could be, in part, due to several things. First, there is only so much powder you can burn in a given length of barrel efficiently, any more and your just pushing the extra wieght out the barrel. In the case of pellets, the volume of space required in the barrel for them is greater than the volume of space required for loose. This gives a larger surface area within the combustion chamber behind the bullet and therefore reduces the PSI generated whencomparing powder and pellet charges that are equal. This would require larger pellet loads to equal the pressure generated by the loose power. But thats just my theory.

dmurphy317, My strain gage which is the only thing I have to get any kind of pressure corralation with indicates a shorter sharper pressure curve and higher pressure with 777 this leads me to believe that it is faster not slower burning than any thing else I have checked. This means that it should give higher velocity in short barrels and higher pressure with less powder. Of course this is only my opion developed from experance and home made equipment. LEE

That data sounds interesting, how does it compare to real black powder on your strain gage? I know that 777 is significantly slower (in microseconds) than BP so it may show which way the trend is on your testing method. Do you have any data you could forward or post? I would be interested in any comparisons between BP and any/all the subs using the same volume of powder or similar velocity, etc.

All the info and data I've seen suggests that BP is about the fastest thing around, hence its clasification as an explosive vs a propellant (what most all the other powders including smokeless is clasified as).

My experience with 777 was also the opposite. When firing blanks from a 1 inch bore mortar (very small scale) I use about 150 grains of T7 powder without a wad and I get a nice bang. Pyrodex deffinitly burns slower cause I have to fill the barrel up to the muzzle and still 9/10 times I only get a woosh sound. The pyro burns too slow and pushes itself out the barrel. T7 on the other hand burns fast enough for the expanding gas to pressurise the bore and cause a bang without any wadding. I`m no rocket scientist but my tests proove to me that T7 is closer to a mild smokeless powder than pyro is to black!